Bar Gauge

[Hammer5573]

I’m just curious to know if any of you use a bar gauge when making cabinets? I purchased one from Veritas about 6 years ago and , although it’s pricey, I consider it to be invaluable when cutting and fitting drawers. I would recommend one to anybody that has difficulty fitting drawers.

[BillyJack]

bar guage?

[Tom King]

I have no idea either.

[pkinneb]

I don't have anything that fancy just use two pieces of wood with points cut on the ends, but yes I do use them to square up drawers and cabinet openings.

[BillyJack]

I’m trying to figure out what it’s for?

[Tpt life]

Measures inside boxes etc., and can be locked to transfer marks. Could function like a trammel. Could do the same thing with most micrometers, but usually on a smaller scale. 

[BillyJack]

We don’t use one in cabinetry..

[BillyJack]

I had to watch a video to get an understanding of its uses. 
 

#1… There’s nothing wrong with investing in a tool that helps eliminate mistakes

#2.. It’s one of those tools you have to force to use, to get the value out of it. 
#3… We all have something we would like to have our money back on.

[Tom King]

Here's what I use, only I buy them when they're $8.88 on sale.  I haven't built a lot of cabinets though-only about 35 houses full over 49 years.

https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Powerlock-Return-1-Inch-Chrome/dp/B00FFA7TGS/ref=asc_df_B00FFA7TGS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=642107185134&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11459695235798871105&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009786&hvtargid=pla-1949513073296&psc=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwtuOlBhBREiwA7agf1nvc3uPc1gar6iMHAiZUpR90QSTid8yJW2-A2jEl0jBWHwJGB8wsChoCLm8QAvD_BwE

[Coop]

I’ve made a couple and yes, they are handy. I didn’t know that is what they are called.

My wife is my bar gauge and sometimes she watches too closely! 

[curlyoak]

https://www.amazon.com/Lufkin-TX46N-Folding-Wood-6-Inch/dp/B00002N5KI/ref=asc_df_B00002N5KI/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309760780746&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9832998877667261893&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9012433&hvtargid=pla-569207801020&psc=1

I use 2 rulers in my shop. I use my Lufkin wooden ruler with a 6" extender for inside dimension. And setting ups my table saw fence. The width of the ruler is 5/8" and from time totem that helps. To measure the thickness of a piece of wood I extend one leg of the wood rule and butt all the other folded pieces to the face of the wood. Hard to explain but quick to do.

I also use a stanley 16' tape. My guess is I use the wood rule 60% of the time and balance on the stanley.

ps the thickness of the wood is exactly 1/8". Useful at times...

[curlyoak]

https://www.woodpeck.com/onetime-tool-modular-bar-gauge-system-2021.html 

found a bar gauge. I see the benefit but I'm good for now and won't buy one.

[BillyJack]

When I started in 1983, I worked for Commercial Millwork and Specialty Company. There were 4  main guys. holly-60, Jimmy-37,Ronnie 35 and Greg the owners son who was foreman -30 maybe. All these guys were lifetime cabinet makers, all using measuring tapes. 
 

The only cabinet maker I worked with that used a folding rule was Gary White who owned Gary White Cabinets, but Gary was a carpenter by trade turned cabinet maker and brought the folding tape from carpentry. Only shop I ever worked at that used Craftsman table saws and portable tools.

 

I went to work for Gary in 1985 after getting Hirt on the table saw..

[Hammer5573]

I guess that I've been "overruled" . Seriously, I like using the bar gauge because I can transfer the cabinet measurements directly to my table saw with a degree of accuracy that I don't get with a tape. I can also use it for checking irregularities in the drawer guides, glides and kickers.

[BillyJack]

Why can’t you get it with a tape?

[gee-dub]

I use them with good success.  A tape is fine for plus or minus a certain amount.  Bar gauges are nice when you are fitting to a 1/16" or less and need reliably repeatable results.  The flex in a tape over a decent span can be quite a bit over that.  I do have tapes all over the shop and use them a lot for many things.  For tighter tolerances I use something else.  I use a metal rule or a story stick for a lot of critical measurements.

I added the Lufkin folding rule to my wish list though .  I had not been able to find one with an extendable tongue in imperial.  Thanks!

[Tom King]

I get by fine with a tape.  I do use a sharp pencil that I'm particular about though. One advantage I had was having a shop setup in the house I was building.  I built the garage part first, and moved the tools in as soon as possible. I often had the garage roof covered and the rest of the house walls not even up yet.  The RAS, jointer, and table saw were used a lot in the framing.

When we made the cabinet boxes, there was not a lot of handling of parts.  We'd assemble a box, and go put it in place.  Once all the boxes were set, the face frames were made to fit, always in one piece regardless of the length, and installed.

It eliminated a lot of shuffling of parts and handling, as well as no real moving cabinets.  Each stage was completed completely before even starting the next phase.

I remember one kitchen in one such spec house had 48 drawers.  All the parts were cut out and milled in one session, the dovetails run, and then all assembled.  I remember being worried about getting parts mixed up, but they were organized in stacks and my helpers knew they would get in trouble if they handed me the parts in the wrong order to run on the dovetail jig.  I forget how many drawers the bathrooms had, but they were all done at the same process.

Drawer slides were installed after the cabinet boxes were installed.  I'd mount the top ones first, using a piece of plywood as both a spacer and to keep it automatically square to the front, and rip the same piece of plywood down for the next drawers down below the top one, and so forth.  Pretty much automatic and aligned perfectly to start with.

Then drawers were assembled, and all finished before mounting their slides and putting them in place as each pair of slides was mounted.  I never took time to make drawer fronts integral to the drawer boxes, but they were always mounted along with doors after being finished first.

If you're doing something for yourself, you could be a lot more detail oriented, but my method was plenty good enough for the houses I built, up to the above mil and a half level house.

When I built those new houses, I did everything, so the cabinets were just one step in the process, and efficiency was the name of the game starting with bare ground in the Fall, and having the house sold by late Spring.  There was no waiting for contractors, or spending time on the phone.  Every day we were producing work soon after we walked on the site in the morning.

[wtnhighlander]

An advantage the gauge has over the tape is that it works by touch, not sight. Simple to get extreme accuracy, even when you can't see the workspace clearly.

Although, I'd struggle to pay a Woodpeckers price for something I can replicate with 2 flat sticks and a clamp....

[curlyoak]

On the Lufkin rule there is a metal slide out that I use for inside dimensions. Click on the link I left yesterday. It gives a full picture of the rule.

[Tom King]

I remember making two such gauges for working on old houses.  

One use was for marking 10' tall replacement columns to fit in place on an old porch.  The roof was level, but the floor had a slope to it.  The "bar" was used to mark the new columns to four places around the circle on the floor.  Two strips with points on one side to mark the columns by, a spring clamp, and a couple of little C-clamps.

The other use was an 18th Century museum house that we made replacement sash for 38 windows.  Back then, window frames were made into 4x7 timbers that were part of the house frame with all but one stop carved out of the timbers.  Being made by hand over 200 years ago, they were now all different.  I decided it would be best to make all the windows of a particular size exactly the same so they could have a few extra sash, so it a pane ever got broken (bound to happen at some point), they could just put an extra sash in while the broken one was being fixed.

This required us to size all of each size the same with shoulder planes, chisels, and side rabbet planes.  The largest opening was straightened and plumbed up, and "gauge bars" made to fit that opening.  The ones that needed enlarging a little were fitted with the gauge bar.  One side would be plumbed and straightened up, and the opposite side fitted with the bar.  If I remember correctly, it was about a two week quiet job. 

They are even necessary things sometimes, but not needed at all for cabinets.

Lukfin used to make those folding rulers with a folding hook on one end.  That is the kind I've always had in the truck.

[curlyoak]

On 7/22/2023 at 7:27 AM, Tom King said:

They are even necessary things sometimes, but not needed at all for cabinets.

Because this neded to fit between 2 walls The walls were imperfect to square and plumb. I created a bar. 2- 1 x 2's 6' long. I clamped the 2-1x2's to extend within 2". I marked several touch points. With a helper holding the bar at a designated spot on my end I got the exact measurements on the various spots with my wooden rule. The proof is in the pudding. It fit perfect. That being said net wall to wall installations I don't like due to the pucker factor. Once it got installed my breathing and heart rate got back to normal. (I exaggerate!) I never knew that the name of the tool I made was a bar...

[BillyJack]

Like I said we don’t is the in h cabinet shops. Gary white used one , but I think it was more habit because he was a carpenter. I still used a tape working for him.

 

Now if I need perfect measurements on s wall to wall, I use a pattern.

 

To make sure I’m understood. Shops don’t use them, but you can use any method if it works for you..

[Tpt life]

Shops often don’t use them due to other processes and work arounds. Scribed filler strips and the like, have driven a lot of that sort of thing into the past. Lots of processes can get to the same satisfaction from a customer. Use the one that keeps getting you paid. 

[BillyJack]

Fillers are used on commercial. Scribe is used in many cabinet shops. In the 80’s we did not use scribe, but rather fit everything to the  wall..

 

When doing commercial reception desks going wall to wall, you have to fit unless your lucky they are putting a stone in front, if not you’ll build from a pattern to fit exactly with a thin line of caulk to make it look seamless.

 

But we are not talking bar gauges now , are we,,,

[BillyJack]

On 7/20/2023 at 9:14 PM, Coop said:

I’ve made a couple and yes, they are handy. I didn’t know that is what they are called.

My wife is my bar gauge and sometimes she watches too closely! 

My wife has never cared for woodworking.