graffis Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 I've got a 20 gallon 1.5 HP compressor attached to a retractable 25' hose reel. See pic below. Every time I use the compressed air, a lot of moisture comes out with the air--almost like a spray gun. I have a drain valve on the bottom of the tank which I drain regularly by "blowing out" the water but the problem persists. I've been told that an oil/water filter needs to be at least 15-20 feet from the compressor in order to be effective. Given the setup I have, that would be difficult without moving the reel. There's about 5 feet of hose between the compressor and the reel and I've got room on top of the compressor housing to install, within reason, some kind of filter system. Given this scenario, any suggestions as to how I can eliminate the moisture/condensation problem would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySats Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) You can do a loop the length you need then go into your hose reel . Something like this Edited September 18, 2015 by JerrySats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mzdadoc Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Used air tools my whole life and never had the filter a certain distance away. Best advise is stop by your local auto body shop and ask cuz their lines are as dry as they get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 I agree. If you want to throw a separator on, do it. Mine sits about 24" away from my tank. I very very rarely get any condensation when blowing air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Two concepts. Jerry has it right but the loops are not necessary. A single drop and rise by the tank usually is enough if each fixture has a drop tee just like it. Your hose usually just needs to have a drop tee system to plug into with a drop tee next to the tank. If you go one step further with a separator before your reel, you will see a good benefit as any oxidation will get trapped as your lines break down over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mzdadoc Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Trip I have to say I wish you were my neighbor!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 If trip were my neighbor, I'd ask him to help with my pipeing... Um phrasing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 I've had one of these (although without the fancy electronic panel) since a Binks model 18 was about the best spray gun you could get. It still works after probably 30 years. http://www.zoro.com/ingersoll-rand-compressed-air-dryer-11-cfm-5-hp-6-class-d18in/i/G1635672/?gclid=CjwKEAjw7O6vBRDpi7O-8OWSkwESJACNFsgxbGLn4SE1TCD6wO7rICwkxh60VY63yERed3aHiQNv2xoC2Snw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Those IR dryers are a classic... I think Charles Neil has the exact same one in his setup -- also going strong after a decade or two... One thing, I'm not sure IR is the company it once was... I know some of the guys in our area had problems with recent IR kit. We had record %RH in NJ in '13 and a lot of folks rushed-out to upgrade their dryers... But some of that kit has had issues... So if yours dies, you may want to do some research.... BTW: $650 is a great price for that unit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 This is a great thread!If a guy is running a simple trim compressor for nail guns, and wanted to run 10 or 12 feet of copper pipe to a hose reel, would moisture still be a major concern for a short run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Moisture creates two problems: rust in the tank, and water in the finish. If you drain the system regularly, tank rust is minimized. If you aren't spraying finished, a little moisture in the air probably isn't an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Depends on what you do with the air... If you use it to drive a trim nailer (and you add pneumatic oil daily), then no, why bother?Note: Pancake compressors are really just for low-CFM tools like nailers -- not sanders, spray, etc... You'd drive the compressor to 100% duty cycle and kill it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) Depends on what you do with the air... If you use it to drive a trim nailer (and you add pneumatic oil daily), then no, why bother?Note: Pancake compressors are really just for low-CFM tools like nailers -- not sanders, spray, etc... You'd drive the compressor to 100% duty cycle and kill it...it's even smaller than a pancake - it's a one gallon dewalt. I use it only for nail guns (23 pins, 18 finish, and 16 brads). Edited September 19, 2015 by Pug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim DaddyO Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Another way I have seen it done in old Hot Rod magazines (for painting cars) is to have the pipe come out of the compressor and drop a few feet and then come back up in a U shape. At the bottom of the U install a water separator so that it is in the lowest part of the run. Have all the piping at a slight angle sloping toward it. Have the separator at a distance from the floor (and wall) so that you can get a bucket to sit under it so that the separator is "in" the bucket. When dry air is crucial (like spraying, as it works pretty good as is) put the bucket around the separator and fill with ice. This will increase the efficiency of the separator by making any moisture condense at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 ==>and fill with iceThat works -- seen it online, but never in person... It's a DIY aftercooler/condenser... Folks also buy refrigerator coils to submerge in the ice to improve efficiency... In all honestly though, a purpose made unit isn't all that expensive... The ice method is a lot of work to save $200 on an aftercooler... But I suppose if you do it well and use a coil, you could save a grand on the dryer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graffis Posted September 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Hey everybody-Thanks so much for all the useful input. It's fantastic and I really appreciate the posts. I will try to use a couple of separators (in series) next to the compressor to see how that works since I don't think I have the room for the condensing pipes. My primary use for compressed air, at least so far, is blowing sawdust off my projects, and occasionally for a small nail air gun. Not ready for prime time spray painting. But getting water spray on my sanded finish is a pain, thus the reason for my question. Anyway, thanks again for everyone's help. This is a great forum to be part of. Just one last question: Do water separators have to be drained regularly or are there models that are designed to avoid this issue? Given the location of where they will need to be placed, it will be a pain to drain them regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 The water's got to go somewhere... So yes, separators have to be drained...The better models have float drains and nibs to fit plastic tubing. I route the tubing to a floor drain. Otherwise, it's manual draining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 @hhh do you have a shop tour somewhere? I couldn't find it with the google machine. Tell ya what man, every time you throw us a little taste via a pic of your clamps or compressed air setup or whatever I need to get a paper towel to wipe my drool. I'd love to see your whole setup.Sorry to derail the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 @hhh do you have a shop tour somewhere? I couldn't find it with the google machine. Tell ya what man, every time you throw us a little taste via a pic of your clamps or compressed air setup or whatever I need to get a paper towel to wipe my drool. I'd love to see your whole setup.Sorry to derail the OP. I believe I've seen some pics of hhh's shop nothing like a shop tour, but more of a here's a glimpse of dust collection coming off my bandsaw, and one of my table saw. Oh and here are clamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 ==>shop tour If it happened to be underwater... As mentioned, I take quick/dirty photos to clarify talking points... I don't take photos for photos sake -- unless it's fish, wrecks or cave formations... courtesy, JH/ADM ... I’ll add it to the list... This is a tough crew: the list keeps growing... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Haha wow, so you weren't kidding when you said cave diving. I like scuba, but I think my claustrophobia would prevent me from doing much cave diving. Very cool pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Wright Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Hey everybody-Thanks so much for all the useful input. It's fantastic and I really appreciate the posts. I will try to use a couple of separators (in series) next to the compressor to see how that works since I don't think I have the room for the condensing pipes. My primary use for compressed air, at least so far, is blowing sawdust off my projects, and occasionally for a small nail air gun. Not ready for prime time spray painting. But getting water spray on my sanded finish is a pain, thus the reason for my question. Anyway, thanks again for everyone's help. This is a great forum to be part of. Just one last question: Do water separators have to be drained regularly or are there models that are designed to avoid this issue? Given the location of where they will need to be placed, it will be a pain to drain them regularly.The easiest thing to do is to mount the water separator on the wall where you can access it and then add a loop hose from the compressor to the water separator and then back to your hose reel. There is a lot of info in this post, but don't over-think it. Before you spend hundreds of dollars on air drying equipment you should probably invest in a larger compressor. I have sprayed lacquer, and oil based paints out of an HVLP gun run by my 60 gallon Ingersoll Rand compressor with a simple water separator and never been dissappointed with the results 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graffis Posted September 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 So-o-o, not to put too fine a point on this topic, but I was thinking about another possible solution. Since I don't have the room for long lengths of condensing pipes above my compressor, how about if I coiled a long length of copper tubing around, say, a 5 gallon bucket from top to bottom to give the coil "shape" and then use that coil between my compressor and the hose reel? If I did do this, should the coil be oriented vertically or horizontally or wont it matter? My hose is 3/8" ID so I could use the same size copper tubing. Would this work or do I still need to somehow incorporate a drain valve or is the entire concept too "Rube Goldberg"? I'd hate to spend all that money on copper tubing and still have water spray on my projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 (edited) First, is flex copper rated for air? I ask out of ingnorance. Second, think still...as in alcohol distillery. Incline your coil so that moisture will run down and not collect in every sweep. Edited September 26, 2015 by C Shaffer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 First, is flex copper rated for air? Depends on you definition of 'flex'. Dunno about the accordion copper used for gas, but the connecting line between my compressor and tank is just plain copper tubing, and it is bent into a rough 90*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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