bushwacked Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Has anyone used this or seen it in action? I was listening to Jay, Matt and Nick and they brought this up as an alternative to the domino ... price isnt too bad either if it is actually a good alternative that is ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 i have not seen one or heard of it. My be good as an alternative for alignment but i don't think dowels can ever come close to the strength of a domino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 9 minutes ago, shaneymack said: i have not seen one or heard of it. My be good as an alternative for alignment but i don't think dowels can ever come close to the strength of a domino. As far as I remember, dowels joins have been proved stronger than Domino's. There was a strength test conducted by FWW, I think it's this one: http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/joint-strength-test.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Just now, Daniel. said: As far as I remember, dowels joins have been proved stronger than Domino's. There was a strength test conducted by FWW, I think it's this one: http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/joint-strength-test.aspx id give my left nut if that was true There is no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Yeah, I agree with Daniel. I bet they are stronger. Edit: Well, let me clarify. Like if you use 100 dowels versus like 1 domino. Definately stronger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 I can't see the results of the FWW stress tests because I let my online sub lapse...but if they say dowels were stronger than Dominoes I'm gonna quit woodworking because my instincts must be wrong about everything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Trip Posted December 18, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 ==>if they say dowels were stronger than Dominoes If I remember correctly, they used rebar... ==>There was a strength test conducted by FWW As an FYI: FWW does a lot of things well... But one thing they don't do well is comparative testing... They tend to use a small sample sizes and their methodology is usually flawed... I strongly suspect they've never heard of a T test... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 8 minutes ago, Eric. said: I can't see the results of the FWW stress tests because I let my online sub lapse...but if they say dowels were stronger than Dominoes I'm gonna quit woodworking because my instincts must be wrong about everything. Then start shopping for crochet hooks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 I don't recall the specifics of the article either, so I can't say either way based on their testing. In application though, I cannot see one advantage to using a dowel over a domino. The domino provides resistance to movement in more directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Just now, Llama said: I don't recall the specifics of the article either, so I can't say either way based on their testing. In application though, I cannot see one advantage to using a dowel over a domino. The domino provides resistance to movement in more directions. That's only true when a single dowel is used, which is not a good practice under any circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Janello Posted December 18, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Dowel test procedures in a controled lab: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 1 minute ago, Janello said: Dowel test procedures in a controled lab: ya that is about right!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 1 minute ago, Daniel. said: That's only true when a single dowel is used, which is not a good practice under any circumstance. Still not accurate... The mortise for the domino is formed with a high quality tool, not a drill. Most dowel jigs on the market rely on the user to properly clamp the jig to the piece in a repeatable manner. Much more unreliable than the Domino. Not saying it's not possible, or that all dowel joints are bad, because that wouldn't be true... There is much less user error when using the Domino over any dowel jig on the market. Not to get too technical, but I work in a lab that tests mechanical and wear properties of various products. I cringe every time I see a "lab test" in any magazine. Their methods are laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 14 minutes ago, Llama said: Still not accurate... The mortise for the domino is formed with a high quality tool, not a drill. Most dowel jigs on the market rely on the user to properly clamp the jig to the piece in a repeatable manner. Much more unreliable than the Domino. Not saying it's not possible, or that all dowel joints are bad, because that wouldn't be true... There is much less user error when using the Domino over any dowel jig on the market. Not to get too technical, but I work in a lab that tests mechanical and wear properties of various products. I cringe every time I see a "lab test" in any magazine. Their methods are laughable. Hey, I agree that Domino is a more evolved joinery method. But that doesn't mean dowels are weaker. If used properly, as it has been for years before Dominoes, it's still a good and relatively easy to make wood joint. Now if this thread is gonna become Festool vs Everything-else, then we'll never agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 I'll just add that I'm not philosophically opposed to dowels for any reason. I mean I just stuck up for biscuits the other day. If used correctly for an appropriate application, they are a perfectly acceptable way to build. Krenov used the hell out of dowels on his case construction. Good enough for me. He is GOD after all. But I refuse to believe that dowels are stronger than Dominoes. It just flies in the face of common sense. Dominoes are more precisely fitted, are sized to be more structurally robust, and are made of steamed beech. That is some seriously tough stuff. If FWW says dowels are stronger...sorry...I just don't believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 8 minutes ago, Daniel. said: Hey, I agree that Domino is a more evolved joinery method. But that doesn't mean dowels are weaker. If used properly, as it has been for years before Dominoes, it's still a good and relatively easy to make wood joint. INow if this thread is gonna become Festool vs Everything-else, then we'll never agree. Daniel, i mentioned the domino because Bushwacked mentioned it in his original post. Festool is not the end all be all but the domino is king for quick, strong handheld joinery machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 17 minutes ago, Daniel. said: Now if this thread is gonna become Festool vs Everything-else, then we'll never agree. My point was missed then... Strange because we agree, yet we seem to disagree... Point I am making, it is easier to make the correct joint with the domino than it is with most dowel jigs on the market. Improper technique on any joint will cause premature failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesC Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 $239 in case anybody else was wondering. http://www.amazon.com/Triton-TDJ600-Duo-Dowel-Jointer/dp/B017DR9QZ2?tag=misfisla0c-20 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post estesbubba Posted December 18, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 1 hour ago, shaneymack said: id give my left nut if that was true There is no way. You can't be saying this after yesterday... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 52 minutes ago, Llama said: Point I am making, it is easier to make the correct joint with the domino than it is with most dowel jigs on the market. Improper technique on any joint will cause premature failure. 100% agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Look at the end grain to cross grain ratio with dowel. Pretty much 50/50. Where as a domino or MT joint has far more cross grain glue surface. I've used dowels so I have some experience there & I just can't believe they are as strong. I read that test too, but there has to be something not right about their methods to have gotten the result they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Wright Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 I know FWW tests showed the dowelmax system was stronger than dominoes, but I don't think traditional dowels were as strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 2 minutes ago, Andy Wright said: I know FWW tests showed the dowelmax system was stronger than dominoes, but I don't think traditional dowels were as strong AFAIK Dowelmax is just a doweling jig... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 I don't think I care which is stronger. They both serve pretty different purposes. Anyone that can afford or justify a Domino wouldn't care at all about that Triton dowel thing. And those (like me) that can't justify the Domino - the Triton thing looks pretty sweet. That being said, I was just thinking earlier today that I got a side job coming up that would give me more than enough cash to get a Domino. Then I smacked myself in the head as there are like 800 things I need first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Quit smacking your head and get a domino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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