Eric. Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 In the past I've always used shop-made jigs or pegboard to locate shelf pins. But for various reasons, I'm sick of that and want a commercial jig. Pick one and go with it, right? Not that easy. A few days ago I ordered some shelf pins and sleeves from Lee Valley for the cabinet I'm working on. They're nice...machined solid brass with sleeves that sit flush inside the hole instead of the ugly collar that you usually see. Problem is...they're "European," so they require 7mm holes. Which means the Rockler, Woodcraft, and Kreg jigs are out. They don't offer 7mm drivers that are compatible...just 5mm and 1/4". Of course Veritas sells one that would work but it's like 170 beans plus another 14 for the long bars I'll need. Plus shipping, we're up to 200. Bah. Anyone know of an alternative before I buck up stupid money for a stupid shelf pin jig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 How about the Festool rail? Just put your router on it and get the holes you need. https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tool-accessories/guide-rails/tracks/32-mm-hole-drilling-guide-rail-55-1400-mm-496939 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Yeah it's awesome, but we're talking like $350. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 $125.00 according to the FT website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 That's for the rail...add $241 for the drilling set. Or am I a crackhead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hmm.. Wonder if you need that kit to make it work correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Yessir you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 As I don't do much with shelf pins, it's obviously some green Kool-aid I haven't had.. Next option - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I recommend the Festool rail and drilling set. I have had them both for quite a while. Before that I made a jig similar to MEG products jig drilled for a bushing on my plunge router so I could use different size plunge bits depending on the size of hardware I needed to insert. It had holes drilled for metal pins for the euro offsets from the edge. It worked very well, I made it out of 1/2" Baltic birch plywood. If I recall, I had it set up for 32mm spacing for the shelf pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 True position jigs are very versitile! You can line bore existing cabinets or flat parts. Also great for drilling cabinet knobs and pulls. http://www.amazon.com/True-Position-TP-1935-Hardware-Extensions/dp/B003E46SWS That's the deluxe version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 make your own it will cost you some scrap ply drill 1/2" hole with drill press a a 12" bushing and, a 1/4" straight bit I built one ten yrs ago it works perfect I've built tons of cabs with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodbutcher74 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Couldn't you send the 7mm pins back and get the 5mm. Then you could use the less expensive jigs. Don't know if you have to use the 7mm? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Can't you just use the cheap Kreg jig (or Rockler/Woodcraft) to position and drill 1/4" or 5mm holes. Then open them up to 7mm freehand with a little blue tape to stop chipping and a stop collar to prevent it running thru to the outside? That's what I would do. It's not as if you are mass producing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 With some plywood, pipe, springs, and a dozen trim routers you could make a plunging tool to bore 3' of stock @ 4" spacing in one shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I recommend the Festool rail and drilling set. I have had them both for quite a while. Before that I made a jig similar to MEG products jig drilled for a bushing on my plunge router so I could use different size plunge bits depending on the size of hardware I needed to insert. It had holes drilled for metal pins for the euro offsets from the edge. It worked very well, I made it out of 1/2" Baltic birch plywood. If I recall, I had it set up for 32mm spacing for the shelf pins. The Fes system is awesome and I'm definitely tempted since I'm drunk on the Kool-Aid anyway...but I'll never do cabinets in a production setting...nor will I even do my own kitchen when the time comes...so laying out that kind of money for a shelf jig would be a pretty stupid move for me. True position jigs are very versitile! You can line bore existing cabinets or flat parts. Also great for drilling cabinet knobs and pulls.http://www.amazon.com/True-Position-TP-1935-Hardware-Extensions/dp/B003E46SWS That's the deluxe version It seems like you can only drill 5mm holes with that jig...do I misunderstand? Couldn't you send the 7mm pins back and get the 5mm. Then you could use the less expensive jigs. Don't know if you have to use the 7mm? Just a thought. The pins aren't 5mm, the sleeves are. I prefer using the sleeves. I looked for similar quality pins and sleeves in the 1/4" size, but couldn't find them. You know I'm the annoying nitpicky type. Can't you just use the cheap Kreg jig (or Rockler/Woodcraft) to position and drill 1/4" or 5mm holes. Then open them up to 7mm freehand with a little blue tape to stop chipping and a stop collar to prevent it running thru to the outside? That's what I would do. It's not as if you are mass producing them. C'mon Terry, you know what happens when you bore a larger hole from a smaller one...the brad point has nowhere to hold so the bit wanders all over. A smaller hole inside of a larger one...golden. Other way around...disaster. I'm gonna do a more thorough search for 1/4" hardware that meets my standards. If I can't find them then I guess I'll be ordering the Veritas or Festool systems. I did find Brusso pins and sleeves but good lord they're expensive...set of four pins without the sleeves...$18. No way. I could pay for either of the jigs I'm considering with the cost of that hardware for one project, and the LV hardware is very nice looking quality stuff for a fraction of the cost. I'm a little turned off to the Rockler jigs because some of the reviews suggest the drivers are garbage and it leaves sloppy holes prone to tearout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 You don't use a brad point bit to open up the hole. You just use a regular (metalworking) twist drill. The 118 degree point is self centering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Meh. I've never had great results doing that either. Keep in mind I'm using ply on this build so tearout is a major concern. Frankly I'd rather lay out the money for the Veritas jig before I went that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I've never seen/used shelf pins w/ sleeves. Mine have always come from HD. I Googled it and they look sharp. What is the reason for the sleeves. Decoration, to cover an unclean hole or to make relocating the pins to another hole an easier process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cochese Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I've never seen/used shelf pins w/ sleeves. Mine have always come from HD. I Googled it and they look sharp. What is the reason for the sleeves. Decoration, to cover an unclean hole or to make relocating the pins to another hole an easier process? That, and I think you reduce the wear on the plywood thus keeping it from opening up and becoming loose. At least, that's been my experience. The sleeves look awesome. The LR32 kit is awesome, but let's not kid ourselves about the actual price. Compatible router, kit, rail...you're looking at $750-$1250 if you don't have anything to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mzdadoc Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Wow I had no idea these jigs could cost so much. When I built a computer desk with my son a week or so ago I bought the Rockler cheap one. Put it together and it worked perfectly. Then I realized I used the rivets on the back to keep it all lined up instead the correct thicker side. DOH! It all turned out great but I used it logo up. That throws me every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 If your going to be drilling them one hole at a time there is no sense in spending money on a commercial jig. Your drill press will work just fine. A long end mill or even router bit will cut just fine in your drill press to make nice holes. All you need is a sub table and a old drill bit for a pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have an OF1400 so I would only need the kit and rail...but I still don't think I'll be going that route since, like I said, I'm not in production and never will be. These are the pins and sleeves I ordered... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 We only build two or three sets of cabinets a year, and maybe the same number of shelving units. I've used the same "jig" for probably 25 years. It's a piece of Baltic Birch 3/4. I drew lines on each side of it with a combination square and pencil for whatever the setback was, made indentations on the line with dividers, and drilled holes that are a slide fit for an old TIG electrode (tungsten) glued in a wooden handle. That is quick clamped to the cabinet part, and the very sharp electrode marks the hole position on the cabinet piece with a light push of fingers. Set a fence on the drill press, and holes are drilled with a brad point into each marked indentation. I have several of these marking jigs that have accumulated over the years for various spacings. None of the holes have been wallowed out enough to matter on any of the jigs, and I've never had a wobbling shelf with this method. If I built cabinets or furniture all the time that needed shelf holes, I'd get a multi-head press. Otherwise, even a few hundred dollar investment makes no sense for me. We're building kitchen cabinets for an Architects personal house next week, and this is the method I'm going to use with no worry about pleasing him, or his Wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 3 minute jig. Cost nothing if you use scrap ply. If you want to get fancy use drill guides in the holes. Bolt to drill press or use guides and hand drill. Burn it when your done, no loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Now I can see why you don't want any tear out at all. They don't have flanges to hide any chipout like those push in ones have. PB Eric says he doesn't want to make jigs anymore in the initial post. Eric it looks like the Veritas jig is the best option. Sell some Green stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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