Grizzly, Powermatic, etc.

[kmaukamp]

So I'm in the process of building a new stand alone shop and I've been shopping for new tools, jointer, planer, bandsaw, tablesaw, etc. Just wondering what everyone's opinion on grizzly tools were. I'm a powermatic fan but obvious grizzly has cheaper prices but how is the quality? I own a powermatic lathe but have never used any of the grizzly tools. Also are there any other brands like jet, delta, etc that anyone would recommend. Any input is appreciated. Thanks everyone. 

Also what size jointer does everyone recommend. I'm thinking of going with a 6 but thought maybe I should just go 8 and be done with it.

[Eric.]

Can. O'. Worms.

[pkinneb]

kmaukamp I currently own two Grizzly sanders, a Delta lathe and drill press and have owned Jet tools in the past. I also currently own Powermatic, Laguna, and Hammer tools and in my opinion all these tools have served me well the biggest difference has been what amount of effort it takes do set them up. for instance I used a Ridgid table saw for years and I had to measure the fence on every cut to make sure it was square, on my Powermatic i set and forget. Having said that there was a $2K price premium on the Powermatic you can do a lot of measuring for $2K. Now there are other features that make the saw worth what I paid but I made a lot of cool stuff with the Rigid. Key is to do your research if their are design flaws they will show up in a Google search  

Regarding the jointer I have a 12" Hammer combo machine and really like it prior to that I had a 6" Jet jointer that I used for years. Personally I would have to determine if the extra cost really gains me anything I would also think about what materials I use and how I get them. When I had my jet all my lumber was surfaced now most is rough.

 

[kmaukamp]

Thanks for the advice. I guess it all comes down to doing the research and figuring out what I like best. I've been working out of my cramped garage for a year now and never had the room for the bigger tools. Tired of fighting smaller machines for big results so I'm just gonna spend the money and go for it. I've got a grizzly warehouse not far from me and a powermatic dealer right down the road so I can beat paying shipping. 

[BobInAustin]

Ford Chevy.

Seriously I think both are fine.  For me, I rather have an 8" parallelogram with a helical head vs. PM for the same money.  See the new sofa table build? Matt uses a Grizzly in his shop.

[Cliff]

It's really about an upgrade path. Grizzly > powermatic and other upper scale machines (the > indicates the path, now G>PM.) Why buy 1 PM when you can buy 3 Grizzly machines? Unless you already everything you need and are looking to upgrade to the next level. At least - that is my opinion based on the observations I make of everyone's equipment - and my own. Realistically I can't spend $30k to outfit a shop for a hobby, but I can spend $10k. If I could spend $30k it would be better stuff than Grizzly.

[kmaukamp]

And while on the subject what does everyone think about parallelogram vs standard jointers

9 minutes ago, BobInAustin said:

Ford Chevy.

Seriously I think both are fine.  For me, I rather have an 8" parallelogram with a helical head vs. PM for the same money.  See the new sofa table build? Matt uses a Grizzly in his shop.

Where do I see this sofa table build at?

[BobInAustin]

1 minute ago, Mike. said:

Lots of people use Grizzly tools so it would make sense they show up in people's videos.  That being said,  I wouldn't buy a brand simply because a guy who makes youtube videos uses that brand.  Its like buying shoes because your favorite basketball player wears them.  Not going to make you any better and they might be the wrong shoe for you.  

 

That is true.  My point was you can obviously make quality furniture with one.  

 

2 minutes ago, kmaukamp said:

And while on the subject what does everyone think about parallelogram vs standard jointers

Where do I see this sofa table build at?

Seems like the parallelogram is much easier to setup.  That should be a fairly infrequent event however.

The sofa table is the current guild project being taught by Matt Cremona. https://thewoodwhispererguild.com/product-category/projects/ 

[Eric.]

It's not Ford/Chevy, it's more like Ford/BMW.  They'll both get you from A to B when they're new...the question is how reliably, how comfortably, how efficiently for how long.  It's almost an apples to oranges comparison.  Really the only thing the two have in common is that they're both woodworking machines.

I've owned/do own several machines from both brands, so I speak from experience.

[Keggers]

Powermatic makes great machines - no question about that. As I stated in a previous post -  I bought my Grizzly equipment based on a friends suggestion. Had he suggested Powermatic I would have bought that. I was a novice at the time.

I bought the Grizzly Extreme series when I made my purchases. It's suppose to be better/beefier than the average Grizzly machines. I can't speak personally on the Powermatic equipment as I've never owned one but I've used the crap out of my Grizzly stuff for the past eight years with no real problems. I've been very happy with it except for maybe my band saw. It's a 17" Extreme Series and I've just never liked it all that much.

You'll have to decide which way to go concerning your jointer question. I personally would strongly recommend an 8". I started with the 8" model with spiral heads and have upgraded to a 12" model.

Good luck and have fun shopping!

[kmaukamp]

41 minutes ago, BobInAustin said:

9 minutes ago, Eric. said:

It's not Ford/Chevy, it's more like Ford/BMW.  They'll both get you from A to B when they're new...the question is how reliably, how comfortably, how efficiently for how long.  It's almost an apples to oranges comparison.  Really the only thing the two have in common is that they're both woodworking machines.

I've owned/do own several machines from both brands, so I speak from experience.

I'd take a ford over a BMW any day lol. 

[Eric.]

Well if brand loyalty means more to you than quality, then you know what to buy.  If I were the kind of guy who drove sedans, I wouldn't have to think about it for a fraction of a second.

[Brendon_t]

32 minutes ago, Eric. said:

It's not Ford/Chevy, it's more like Ford/BMW.  They'll both get you from A to B when they're new...the question is how reliably, how comfortably, how efficiently for how long.  

I'm interested to know who's who in that scenario..

[JosephThomas]

22 minutes ago, Eric. said:

It's not Ford/Chevy, it's more like Ford/BMW.  They'll both get you from A to B when they're new...the question is how reliably, how comfortably, how efficiently for how long.  

Well if brand loyalty means more to you than quality, then you know what to buy.  If I were the kind of guy who drove sedans, I wouldn't have to think about it for a fraction of a second.

I think the point is that BMW is comfortable and feature rich, but far from reliable over the long haul, so not a great comparison.

Edit: To clarify, it's more like saying powermatic gives you the rich features of a new BMW, along with the longevity and reliability of a honda or toyota.  BMWs are nice to start but they turn into an expensive liability very quickly.

[Brendon_t]

That's where I was getting hung up.  I thought Eric was calling bmw the more efficient for longer option. Which is completely laughable anybody who unfortunately owns one and rolls 80K on the odo knows. 

It's like a secret button we install that makes everything just fall apart. 

[Cliff]

48 minutes ago, Eric. said:

It's not Ford/Chevy, it's more like Ford/BMW.  They'll both get you from A to B when they're new...the question is how reliably, how comfortably, how efficiently for how long.  It's almost an apples to oranges comparison.  Really the only thing the two have in common is that they're both woodworking machines.

I've owned/do own several machines from both brands, so I speak from experience.

Which one is Tesla? That's the one I want. The $150k price tag, but it comes and picks up my wood for me.

[Gixxerjoe04]

I have grizzly's 15" planer, 8" jointer with a byrd head and one of the cabinet saws.  If i had the money I would have bought powermatic, but i didn't since they cost like twice as much.  Both brands will do what you want them to, might have more problems down the road with grizzly, might not.  Searching used stuff on craigslist I've seen plenty of old models of both still working, so it's not like all grizzly tools just stop working after a few years.  If you have the money I'd def go powermatic though.  Not gonna lie though, my planer is like 4 months old and the magnetic switch went out in it last week haha, it turned on fine but wouldn't engage to turn off so i had to unplug it.  But i called them and they shipped me a new one out that day.

[krtwood]

Grizzly doesn't have reviews on their site.  Grizzly lists some of their tools on Amazon, where there are reviews.  If it gets bad reviews they pull the tool from Amazon.  So one metric for judging a Grizzly tool is if it doesn't have a listing on Amazon run away.  My experience with them is they like to make tools with really good sounding specifications, like a big cast iron table, but don't put as much into the parts that make those specs functional, like the stuff holding up that cast iron table.  But I don't have any experience with their band saws and table saws that generally get positive reviews.

[knotscott]

It's really hard to generalize an entire brand name. You really need to evaluate each tool and compare apples to apples as best as you can....more specifically, compare tools in the same price range and see where they stand.   There's no dealer markup on Grizzly tools, so if you're willing to be your own middleman, you can pocket the savings.   Expect to pay more on average for the PM name, and dealer support.   Overall, I'd guess the PM tools would be better quality...how much better is harder to determine. Overall, I suspect you'll get more tool for the money with Grizzly... more capacity, more features, more power, etc., for the same money, not necessarily better quality or fit and finish..  There can be some legit savings with Grizzly, and some of Grizzly's higher end tools are really pretty good.     If you'd rather buy top shelf and have local dealer support, PM is good stuff.  For a low volume hobbyist, my Griz jointer, DC, and Shop Fox table saw have been great.  For commercial use they may not have been as a good a choice.  

I'm sure the PM2000 is a nicer saw than the comparably equipped G0690/G0691, but both are capable saws, and there's a significant price difference.  Look at Grizzly's comparable saw in the same price range, and the comparison gets tougher.  Which is a better saw for $3000?

Which is the better $3000 jointer?

Powermatic 1610082 PJ-882HH 8-Inch Parallelogram Jointer with Helical Cutterhead

Grizzly G0609X - 12" Jointer w/ Spiral Cutterhead

 

[rodger.]

I just got my first powermatic and it was $$$.  I love it though, and will buy another.  I also fell into the same trap with festool.  

Having reliable, accurate toolsmakes it so much more enjoyable to build.

I  am also "frugal", so expensive tool purchases are very well researched and thought out beforehand.   Sometimes it takes a year before i pull the trigger.

[Tom King]

I have a hard time understanding why anyone buys new, big power tools.  I haven't bought a new one since something like 1975 when I bought a new table saw.  For example, including the carbide tipped blade, and dedicated dust collection system for a 24" bandsaw I use, I have less than $1500 dollars in the whole rig.  I did burn a weekend going to get it, and a couple of hours setting it up, but a new rig that wouldn't do anything any better would be pushing 10K.  I'm sure a lot of peoples' time is worth more than mine, but I'll burn weekends fairly often for $8500.

If I had time, I'd go get this jointer:  https://lexington.craigslist.org/tls/5432384763.html

[wtnhighlander]

Tom, you must remember that SOMEONE has to buy a new tool before you or I can buy it used!

[Tom King]

Yes, and I appreciate it.

[Eric.]

I don't like machine maintenance.  It's that simple.  Warranties and frustration-free has value to me, and I'm happy to pay it.  When something becomes a pain in the ass, I'll sell it to someone with more time and patience.  I like woodworking, not machinefixing.

[Tom King]

I don't like working on machines either, and don't remember ever doing much of it beyond the initial adjusting,  That never takes that much time, and I don't think I've ever had to redo any of it after the first time.  But I never put time into making one look good like Tom C did on his bandsaw.

That's why I would pay 4k for that 16" jointer that looks like it doesn't need much work, over the same machine for half that which would need a bunch of time put into it.  I'd never pay 2 or 3k for a new 8" jointer when I can get one for around a grand or less with some use on it.  My 8" jointer is a Delta I bought used at an auction in the mid '70s, and I've changed the head bearings in it once since then.  I'll put the surface it makes against any other 8".

Almost all of my handplanes are old too, but I never bought one that needed much work beyond sharpening,  maybe straightening the edge of the cap iron, and ten minutes flattening the sole if it's one that it matters on.