Tpt life Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 14 minutes ago, skiback46 said: If you finish like Todd does on edge with a single cut file you do end up with a tiny tiny burr (Don't go back to the faces). It won't be as robust as one that is turned, and can sometimes leave tiny tracks due to the cut of the file, but the tradeoff is in time spent sharpening. I've done it both ways, and I prefer turning a burr, but if I'm in a rush, or working something gnarly that quickly dulls the scraper I'll just use the file. This is why you should finish with a burnisher even if not "turning" the hook. You will consolidate the edge. It is truth worth knowing that a sharp edge is more effective than a poorly turned hook, but a good hook saves lots of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddclippinger Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Just to add context to my method of sharpening, this is my workflow and strategy with card scrapers: The method I use does not produce the fine cutting hook that burnishing provides. A burnished scraper leaves a finer finish on the wood than my method of sharpening a card scraper with a file. However, sharpening with just a file does produce an amazingly effective cutting edge for the short time invested. If a person is doing a final sanding after using a burnished scraper, burnishing the edge is unnecessary because the sanding is the final action anyway. A final sanding with just 180 or 220 removes any of the imperfections that a scraper sharpened with just a file may leave. So I am simply omitting the unnecessary step of investing time in burnishing the edge. If I am going to apply finish as the step directly after the card scraper, the scraper would definitely need to be burnished to produce a higher quality cut and finished surface ready for finish. All the typical magazine articles will go into great depth on how to polish, sharpen, and burnish a card scraper, and they are all correct. But none of them ever addresses strategy for efficient workflow. If sanding negates the need to burnish the scraper, then it is time wasted doing it. Sharpening the card scraper becomes crazy simple and fast for even a beginning woodworker if they do not have to bother with burnishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Yeah, in this hand tool forum the scraper is used more to negate or minimize sanding. It works well inside curves that cannot support ROS. Not right and wrong, just the other side of the coin. I'd use a light rasp for that aggressive card action and never need the file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 For me the scraper is a victim of too much attention. By that I mean I was focusing too much on every little aspect of it. There are dozens of 'How to Sharpen a Scraper' videos out there. This is a good thing because the way that works for one person may not work as well for another. I beat an edge to death yesterday so I went out and took these pics just now. Here's a beat scraper making dust: Bearing in mind that this edge had been more elaborately prepped before I dulled it the first time here. Without doing anything else I roll the hook (or what's left of it) out like so (very little pressure here): Pull the hook back over again. I do this with the scraper in my hand but, I can't do that and take pictures so, I grabbed it in the vise (again very little pressure and just one swipe of the burnisher): And its good for another session of making fluffy little curlies: I can usually get away with refreshing an edge once or twice. After that it is the standard, stone the sides, mill file and stone the edge, roll the burr out and pull the burr back. I do all four edges and do some more aggressive than others. If it is beating you up I would take a break and come back fresh. Keep at it and you will suddenly have that ah-ha moment and you'll be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post derekcohen Posted April 13, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 2 hours ago, toddclippinger said: Just to add context to my method of sharpening, this is my workflow and strategy with card scrapers: The method I use does not produce the fine cutting hook that burnishing provides. A burnished scraper leaves a finer finish on the wood than my method of sharpening a card scraper with a file. However, sharpening with just a file does produce an amazingly effective cutting edge for the short time invested. If a person is doing a final sanding after using a burnished scraper, burnishing the edge is unnecessary because the sanding is the final action anyway. A final sanding with just 180 or 220 removes any of the imperfections that a scraper sharpened with just a file may leave. So I am simply omitting the unnecessary step of investing time in burnishing the edge. If I am going to apply finish as the step directly after the card scraper, the scraper would definitely need to be burnished to produce a higher quality cut and finished surface ready for finish. All the typical magazine articles will go into great depth on how to polish, sharpen, and burnish a card scraper, and they are all correct. But none of them ever addresses strategy for efficient workflow. If sanding negates the need to burnish the scraper, then it is time wasted doing it. Sharpening the card scraper becomes crazy simple and fast for even a beginning woodworker if they do not have to bother with burnishing. I rarely sand a surface. When I do, it is usually to refine an area that cannot be refined with scrapers, and scrapers are only used in cases where I cannot finish with a handplane. In any case, I do not finish with sandpaper. A scraper will refine a sanded surface, such as this bow drawer front in Jarrah (highly interlocked wood). It can easily be seen that the sanded finish (to 400 grit) is improved by a scraper ... link:. http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/FinishingTheDrawers.html Scrapers may be used for different purposes - rapid waste removal, or final finishing. I rarely sand as I dislike dust and the lower quality of finish it produces, however the above link has a hand sander that some of you will find really interesting. A recent picture of the completed drawers ... link to current build: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/FinishingTheCarcase.html Regards from Perth Derek 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Nice set if drawers, Derek! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Are the drawer sides sloped/ tapered to fit the case ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 46 minutes ago, wdwerker said: Are the drawer sides sloped/ tapered to fit the case ? Hi Steve Yes. Think of the chest as a modern bombe. The sides of the carcase taper down, and the drawers are bow-fronted. The drawers are coped into the openings. The bow fronts are subtle, but they are enough to soften the presentation. However, when one has a bow front ,and all the sides taper as well, one ends up with many compound angles. This was the plan for each drawer .. Details here for those interested: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/DesigningTheDrawers.html To return to the topic of scraping, it was the use of highly interlocked grain on the bow fronts that benefitted from the use of a scraper. While I prefer planing everything, curved sections do not lend themselves to planes with flat soles. Regards from Perth Derek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddclippinger Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 5 hours ago, derekcohen said: I rarely sand a surface. When I do, it is usually to refine an area that cannot be refined with scrapers, and scrapers are only used in cases where I cannot finish with a handplane. In any case, I do not finish with sandpaper. A scraper will refine a sanded surface, such as this bow drawer front in Jarrah (highly interlocked wood). It can easily be seen that the sanded finish (to 400 grit) is improved by a scraper ... link:. http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/FinishingTheDrawers.html Scrapers may be used for different purposes - rapid waste removal, or final finishing. I rarely sand as I dislike dust and the lower quality of finish it produces, however the above link has a hand sander that some of you will find really interesting. A recent picture of the completed drawers ... link to current build: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/FinishingTheCarcase.html Regards from Perth Derek Love your post. Your work is superb and that is a cool hand sander. I have not seen that one before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Very cool piece, Derek. The geometry makes my brain hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 11 hours ago, Eric. said: Very cool piece, Derek. The geometry makes my brain hurt. Eric, the geometry made my head ache as well. But it is interesting how the complex becomes comprehendible if you stare at it long enough. Stare too long, however, and someone will take you away to a quiet place. Regards from Perth Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialbyfire Posted April 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Not a pretty shaving but it's not dust! 2 attempts at sharpening the scraper later i made this little pile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 On April 11, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Tom Cancelleri said: Get a Veritas Adjustable Burnisher. Made this for some WTO people in chat months ago when they didn't understand how easy it was to get a perfect and consistent hook. Although all of these methods look great, I need a fool proof, no brainer and this looks as close as I can get. Tom, in your video, well done I might add, as demonstrated, does this tool give you a cutting edge on both sides of the scraper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 1 hour ago, K Cooper said: Although all of these methods look great, I need a fool proof, no brainer and this looks as close as I can get. Tom, in your video, well done I might add, as demonstrated, does this tool give you a cutting edge on both sides of the scraper? Thanks Coop. Yes you can turn the hook on both sides. I didn't in this video, but all you would need to do it pull the scraper from the other side to turn the other hook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Thanks Tom. Currently, mine is more miss than hit. A visit to Woodcraft is in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 I give the thing 100 thumbs up. Though someone needs to explain to me how to keep from roughing up my fingers on the wood. Maybe I'm too steep on my angle of approach as I run it across? all 8 fingers feel like I scraped some skin off or got tiny splinters. I think probably my technique was flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgaron Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 2 hours ago, Cliff said: I give the thing 100 thumbs up. Though someone needs to explain to me how to keep from roughing up my fingers on the wood. Maybe I'm too steep on my angle of approach as I run it across? all 8 fingers feel like I scraped some skin off or got tiny splinters. I think probably my technique was flawed. It could be both... if your hook was too steep you probably had to tip the scraper too much to get it to cut. So your technique compensated for the hook being off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddclippinger Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Gilgaron said: It could be both... if your hook was too steep you probably had to tip the scraper too much to get it to cut. So your technique compensated for the hook being off. I am with Gilgaron. Depending on how you sharpen your card scraper, it can change the operating angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Guide to Hook Angles Angle Applications: 0° Fine wood such as marquetry. 0° to 5° General-purpose wood scraping. 5° to 10° Faster stock removal. 10° to 15° Removing paint, varnish, etc This is from the variable burnisher instructions. I normally just have a couple degrees of hook. I dont use it for rough work though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 2 hours ago, shaneymack said: Guide to Hook Angles Angle Applications: 0° Fine wood such as marquetry. 0° to 5° General-purpose wood scraping. 5° to 10° Faster stock removal. 10° to 15° Removing paint, varnish, etc That sounds about right to me but those numbers are just numbers. Turn enough hooks on your scrapers and you'll get a "feel" for what works and what doesn't. They can be finicky and frustrating in the beginning but you do have that ah-ha! moment eventually and after that it's smooth sailing. Just like everything else woodworking...takes practice and patience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I picked up the Veritas burnisher yesterday and used it a few minutes ago and used it according to Tom's video and I got wood.....shavings?. Great tool!. Question, and it wasn't mentioned in the instructions nor the video, which I might add, is much, much more informative than the instructiona, the dial can be turned in both directions, with the degree increments marked on both. I turned mine to the right. What happens or is suppose to happen, if I turn it to the left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheperd80 Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 Another thing to consider is scraping technique. If youre not getting shavings try scraping at different angles. Theres definitely a narrow sweet spot. For me it was closer to vertical (90° from the wood surface) than i expected. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG-Canada Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I think it puts a hook on the opposite face of the card scraper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 1 hour ago, K Cooper said: I picked up the Veritas burnisher yesterday and used it a few minutes ago and used it according to Tom's video and I got wood.....shavings?. Great tool!. Question, and it wasn't mentioned in the instructions nor the video, which I might add, is much, much more informative than the instructiona, the dial can be turned in both directions, with the degree increments marked on both. I turned mine to the right. What happens or is suppose to happen, if I turn it to the left? I wondered the same thing when I was doing it. If it puts a hook on the opposite side, I wonder if you do both negative and positive and have a 2-way scraper? Seems like that would be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 I tried it on the other edge to see and ran it thru with the dial turned to the right, then rotated it to the same setting to the left. It still only did one side. To do both sides, I had flip the scrapper around. Maybe the dial gives you two surfaces on the burnishing rod to work on? Regardless, it still does a Helluva job! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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