plumbing question

[Ronn W]

I had some plumbing done 5 years ago - 2 toilets back to back,  The plumber said that the vent connection to the toilet drain lines needed to be above the level where the toilet drains into the main stack.  Where are your vent(s)?

[Tpt life]

Sales photos (ripped from Google)  for the visual that address the last comment. The double Wye/Tee combo goes by different names with different suppliers and has a couple of profiles from large radius sweeps to three piece 45° "kinks." Either way, you can see the vent rising above the level where waste should be falling. This assumes you have not clogged the line. 

[Guest]

Just consider yourself lucky it is all PVC.  Chicago code didnt allow PVC unil a couple years ago.  My house (circa 1980) has all soldered copper drains, much more expensive to replace/repair.  

[bleedinblue]

1 hour ago, Mike. said:

Just consider yourself lucky it is all PVC.  Chicago code didnt allow PVC unil a couple years ago.  My house (circa 1980) has all soldered copper drains, much more expensive to replace/repair.  

And stolen during burglaries CONSTANTLY.

[Tom King]

I think the pipe going up must be a 3".  A house is required to have at least one 3" vent The main drain there is 3".  I'd redo it all, wying in the toilets separately, as well as everything else.  Someone might read the code and show how it's all okay, but it doesn't fit common sense.

Is the master shower vented any other kind of way?  The only way you would see any other vent is if it branches out of the drain line, and goes up.  There is no other vent for the hall shower.   The 2" drain for that shower is not far enough away from the main stack to require a vent, but I would have vented it anyway, since there is so much other stuff dumping into the main stack right there.

[Janello]

@Eric.I skimmed this...but figured it out in two posts. Your first one explaining the problem and the picture of the piping. You don't have a vent issue... you have what's called hydraulic jump. You don't have enough distance between the two toilet branches to the stack. When you flush one toilet it jumps the vertical drain and puts pressure on the other toilet branch. FIX: Route and tie in one of the toilet drains down lower in the stack.

 

Your vent for the toilets and the shower is called a wet vent...It uses one pipe size larger for the sink branch..typically 2" and blows out the roof with same. I didn't study that closely but there are other distance rules that apply. The toilet branch distances were so obvious they wacked me on the chin. Hence...that's your problem.

By the way...Carus nailed it in his last post...that back to back short radii fitting IS wrong. 

PS: putting aside the fact that the short turn fitting is wrong: The minimum horizontal distance for the toilet branch is 3X diameter of pipe. That is 3" PVC for that toilet (NOT 4) so the horizontal piece needs to be 9" at the very minimum. Take that into account and the wrong fitting and there you have it. I would NOT put a long turn back to back fitting in it's place because that only solves 1 of those 2 issues. Throw a wye in lower to catch one toilet and off the top to catch the other. Your plumber sucks...and you can tell him I said so.

 

[Eric.]

Great advice, John, thank you!  If the plumber gives me any trouble I'll just hand him my phone with that post pulled up.

So if you were called to a job and had this issue to resolve, what kind of bill would you be handing me?  Just to resolve the problem...assume you were already paid for the toilet installations.

Thanks again.

[Janello]

5 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Great advice, John, thank you!  If the plumber gives me any trouble I'll just hand him my phone with that post pulled up.

So if you were called to a job and had this issue to resolve, what kind of bill would you be handing me?  Just to resolve the problem...assume you were already paid for the toilet installations.

Thanks again.

If you call the same guy back it should be fixed for FREE. He screwed up, no if ands or buts....and if the inspector didn't catch that then he screwed up too!

In defense of your plumber...you are trying to pack 10 lbs of shit in a 5 lb wall. To do this job right and not hack into your framing so bad it looks like toothpicks when he's done...you may have to compromise and give him space outside the wall and box it in later. Especially now that you are retrofitting.

 

[Eric.]

Just now, Janello said:

If you call the same guy back it should be fixed for FREE. He screwed up, no if ands or buts....and if the inspector didn't catch that then he screwed up too!

 

Just to clarify, the plumber did not do any of the work in the basement...that's all original to the house.  And there hasn't been a final inspection yet so I don't know if that would be a problem or not.

He charged me for two toilet installations...not two toilet installations and a modification to the plumbing below it.  Are you saying that along with the cost of the toilet installations should be whatever changes are needed to accommodate those new toilets?

I don't mind paying the guy for extra work...I just don't wanna get raped on it.

He originally told me he charges $80/hr, and the work I need done will take X many hours.  All that's left for him to do is hook up a faucet in the master bathroom....and his total hours on this job are a fraction of what he quoted me.  Like maybe 1/4th.  Should I challenge his bill?  It's highway robbery if you ask me.

[Janello]

23 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Just to clarify, the plumber did not do any of the work in the basement...that's all original to the house.  And there hasn't been a final inspection yet so I don't know if that would be a problem or not.

He charged me for two toilet installations...not two toilet installations and a modification to the plumbing below it.  Are you saying that along with the cost of the toilet installations should be whatever changes are needed to accommodate those new toilets?

I don't mind paying the guy for extra work...I just don't wanna get raped on it.

He originally told me he charges $80/hr, and the work I need done will take X many hours.  All that's left for him to do is hook up a faucet in the master bathroom....and his total hours on this job are a fraction of what he quoted me.  Like maybe 1/4th.  Should I challenge his bill?  It's highway robbery if you ask me.

That changes things "slightly" lol. Okay so your plumber is NOT to blame for the piping. The power flush toilets probably enhanced a previously incorrect install. That said...He should definitely charge you to fix the piping. As far as what the cost should have been and the piping costs, I can only tell you what I charge in Jersey and this is very very subjective because plumbers can charge what they want as long as they do not gouge!! That's a tough line to reference.

My estimate would be: 2 toilet installs $400. labor and misc parts including but not  price of water closets.. $500 wouldn't be absurd.

Lavi faucet $200. for a 8" center set or...$150 for a 4" center set.

Re-pipe basement to meet code: $300 to $400 

I charge MORE than the average guy because I am not equipped with a fully stocked truck these days and only take jobs that I know I can't lose on. 

I never charge by the hour...because usually someone gets screwed that way. Him or you. The reason I charge so much for a toilet install is to cover myself should the porcelain break either by an uneven floor..bad casting or me just being stupid. Hardly ever happens but I insure myself that way.

[Eric.]

8 minutes ago, Janello said:

 

My estimate would be: 2 toilet installs $400. labor and misc parts including but not  price of water closets.. $500 wouldn't be absurd.

Lavi faucet $200. for a 8" center set or...$150 for a 4" center set.

Re-pipe basement to meet code: $300 to $400 

I charge MORE than the average guy because I am not equipped with a fully stocked truck these days and only take jobs that I know I can't lose on. 

 

Jesus Christ, you guys really are rapists.  And how LONG would it take you to do that work?  Maybe an 8 hour day?  Maybe.  Doubt it.

So that's $900-1100.  Not a bad day's pay, eh? LOL

Doctors, lawyers...plumbers.  The three most overpaid occupations in the world.

 

I'll tell you what he did and what he charged me.

Two toilets.  Two bathroom sink faucets (I don't know about 8" or 4" centers...what I do know is they're faucets, not spaceships).  Replaced faucet, valve and showerhead in hall bathtub.  Replaced valve and showerhead in master shower.

He's been out a couple times, both times he had a young employee with him.  I'd estimate that they've spent a total of three hours working in my house.  They still have the master bath faucet to do...let's be liberal and call that another hour.

The only materials he's provided were new shut-offs for faucets and toilets.

A thousand dollars is what he's charging me.  Not bad...thousand bucks for four hours of work.  $250/hour.  Pretty good considering he doesn't even have student loans to pay off.

Oh, I forgot about his little minion he has to pay.  He could cover his wages with a 50 dollar bill, I'm sure.

Don't wanna sound bitter, but damn.  That's a racket.

[Llama]

5 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Doctors, lawyers...plumbers.  The three most overpaid occupations in the world.

Find one, and marry them!

 

[Janello]

Insurance, bonding, taxes, truck maintenance, social security....all things a normal employer has to cover that resides on the self employed. You know what happens when that minion he is teaching drives a screw through your granite top and breaks it?

All that considered..yeah...we charge a lot. That said..we are usually very flexible and we negotiate well. I highly suggest you challenge the invoice 

I forgot..no paid vacations. He will remember you when he is feet up sipping his vodka and seven. Besides, look how many people here were guessing on a vent. I'm glad they aren't giving doctors advise. 

[Eric.]

I don't begrudge anyone making a living.  A fair living.  A comfortable living.  But when you quote me 12.5 hours at $80/hr...and end up working only 4 hours yet charge me the full amount...that ain't right, and I don't know how anyone can argue contrarily.

The problem is that plumbers are like mechanics in that they know they have you bent over.  It's not rocket science but they have the pertinent knowledge...and they're gonna use it against ya.  I don't call that a fair living, I call it a hostage situation.

Anyway, thanks for the advice, plumber!

(Wish you lived closer)

[Janello]

18 minutes ago, Llama said:

Find one, and marry them!

 

You forgot electricians. They charge as much or more than plumbers and the heaviest object they carry is a 6" screwdriver. Wussies.

[Guest]

Maybe change one of the to the non-power assist kind? 

I have 2 new toilets in my house.  One power assist and one regular kind.   The power assist clogs all the time.   The other one (american standard champion 4) does not. 

[Janello]

8 minutes ago, Mike. said:

Maybe change one of the to the non-power assist kind? 

I have 2 new toilets in my house.  One power assist and one regular kind.   The power assist clogs all the time.   The other one (american standard champion 4) does not. 

I was going to make this suggestion. But at this point I figured it was too late for that.

[Eric.]

10 minutes ago, Janello said:

But at this point I figured it was too late for that.

It is.  We won't be returning a toilet...especially since there's an alternative solution.  They're new, they're nice, there's no reason they can't work properly.

[Chestnut]

I feel kinda smug that your forgot engineers in your overpriced services category. I've made a lot of money reading novels.

[Janello]

1 minute ago, Chestnut said:

I feel kinda smug that your forgot engineers in your overpriced services category. I've made a lot of money reading novels.

How bout the part time guy that works at a lumber yard. Crook takes all the good stuff and gets paid to do it. 

[Eric.]

32 minutes ago, Janello said:

How bout the part time guy that works at a lumber yard. Crook takes all the good stuff and gets paid to do it. 

If I made $250 an hour I wouldn't have to spend my Saturdays up there skimming the cream!  I'd just buy the crap like all the rich plumbers do.

[Woodenskye]

E if he estimated 12.5 hours to do the work and has only been there for 3-4 hours, I would definitely call him on that.  It stinks to pay a high hourly rate, but paying a high hourly rate for phantom hours worked would get me ballistic. 

[JosephThomas]

How bout the part time guy that works at a lumber yard. Crook takes all the good stuff and gets paid to do it. 

Lol. You win.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Coop]

3 hours ago, Janello said:

Insurance, bonding, taxes, truck maintenance, social security....all things a normal employer has to cover that resides on the self employed. You know what happens when that minion he is teaching drives a screw through your granite top and breaks it?

All that considered..yeah...we charge a lot. That said..we are usually very flexible and we negotiate well. I highly suggest you challenge the invoice 

I forgot..no paid vacations. He will remember you when he is feet up sipping his vodka and seven. Besides, look how many people here were guessing on a vent. I'm glad they aren't giving doctors advise. 

If I could like this a dozen times, I would. Those that are not in business for themselves, or are and have no overhead or employees, should try it for a couple of months. Product liability, work comp, auto and building insurance, all have to be paid, for Saturdays and Sundays, when invoices are not written and employees don't work. And the list goes on! You mentioned social security but not medicare. Does the average Joe know that his employer matches those? Sorry, this just coincided on a Friday, which is bill paying day

[Tpt life]

If he bills you for a day, and spends half a day plus, pay the day. You are paying for him to not rush.