Popular Post Mick S Posted December 11, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 My buddy Carl asked me this summer to help him choose, install and train on a new CNC router for his shop, with the understanding that he considers it to be "our" machine. Hard to pass up an offer like that. After watching David Falkner's impressive build series last year I chose to go with FineLine Automation's new Saturn 2 series 4 x 4. Neither one of us really wanted to do the electronics assembly that David documented so well, so we opted for a NEMA 34 Plug & Play package from CNC Router Parts. Carl picked up the router in Albuquerque last month. We've been assembling and tweaking everything we can while waiting for the drive pulleys and belts. The last of the parts are due to be delivered today. As David has mentioned, it's a serious router for a hobby shop. We will be running it on Mach3 and VCarve Pro for now. I've decided also to invest the time to learn Fusion 360 after watching Mel's chisel rack video. The parametric capabilities are worth it. I'll be teaching a CNC class starting next semester and will be using Aspire, since they have 30 seats of it, but most of the students taking the course will probably not want to spend $2000 on software for a hobby setup, so making the switch to Fusion 360 makes all kinds of sense to me. I'll update once we have the drives installed. Sure is nice to have a place to put this! 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difalkner Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 That looks great, Mick! I sure wish I had room for a 4x4. Can't wait to see this progress through the stages. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Wow, Mick, that thing is huge compared to what I've seen in the retail stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted December 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Mark J said: Wow, Mick, that thing is huge compared to what I've seen in the retail stores. Yes, it is. I'm retired from selling industrial CNC machinery, which is why Carl approached me about helping him select a CNC router. This particular model is built with components that would be interchangeable on machines costing ten or twenty times as much. It is much heavier and faster than any of the other machines I'm aware of in its price range, yet the machine with electronics cost less than the Powermatic or Axiom models you might see in Woodcraft. Carl does not like to cut corners on equipment. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted December 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 18 hours ago, difalkner said: That looks great, Mick! I sure wish I had room for a 4x4. Can't wait to see this progress through the stages. David David - I noticed in one of your posts that you're running Mach4. Maybe this question needs a different thread, but how did you decide on M4 over M3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difalkner Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Several reasons, Mick. I am a geek, have been a geek forever it seems, and have occasionally 'fallen' for the latest greatest. In this case, Mach3 is older and no longer being developed, may be at EOL before long and for all I know and not supported in a year or two. I weighed the pros and cons of going with the newer but not yet fully developed Mach4, according to some, even though Mach3 has worked for 10's of thousands, if not 100's of thousands of people through the years. And I'm aware there are many scripts and add-ons for Mach3 and much more support from other users. It seems like once a month there's a new release of Mach4 although the 6 month old version I'm running is working just fine, so I'm several releases behind. The things I read where people said, 'Mach4 doesn't do a particular routine as well as Mach3' or 'doing this in Mach3 is easier than in Mach4' at first gave me cause for concern until I realized most of those were specific tasks or routines that wouldn't apply to me, at least not in the foreseeable future. So far Mach4 has performed to my expectations and has not gotten in the way of completing a task. One drawback I have that may have been resolved is that I can't control my spindle through the software. I still turn it on manually, set the speed manually, and turn it off manually. I have all the hardware in place to communicate with the VFD but don't have the script for Mach4 to accomplish controlling it with code. It's easy in Mach3; there are several available scripts. But I haven't checked in at least a year to see if one is available - it might be for all I know. I've grown accustomed to pushing the buttons on the VFD. I guess if it bothered me enough I'd go out and search for that script or try to write one but it's just not a biggie to me. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted December 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Yep, I went through the same thought process and ultimately decided to go with Mach3. I think in the long run M4 will be supported with more scripts and screensets, but I didn't feel like trying to troubleshoot the newer software. I've heard others comment about the spindle on/off and speed control issues in M4. That was a major reason for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 13 hours ago, Mick S said: Carl does not like to cut corners on equipment. Thats a good woodworking friend to have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyokahn Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Wow that's a beast! With nema34 and fully supported rails you could probably cut steel on that thing without a hiccup (given a bigger spindle). Congrats on your new machine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted December 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 First tramming tests. Got it dialed in after two adjustments. The new tramming cam nut helps a lot! Can't wait to get a dust shoe made for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difalkner Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 Glad to see y'all got it going! And yes, making a dust shoe needs to come soon - messy stuff, this. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 Oh yea, anything done to MDF needs dust collection ! Is there a way to build a shoe out of clear anti static material so you can see the bit? I read the heading and thought " no it's Saturn V, they never built the Saturn II " Space and sci-fi was an obsession back in the day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted December 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 39 minutes ago, wdwerker said: Oh yea, anything done to MDF needs dust collection ! Is there a way to build a shoe out of clear anti static material so you can see the bit? I read the heading and thought " no it's Saturn V, they never built the Saturn II " Space and sci-fi was an obsession back in the day. They do make clear plastic "brushes", but in my experience the swirling dust covers them up and you really can't see much anyway. Most of the time listening to the cutting action is a better indicator of whether you need to make adjustments on the fly. I've almost typed Saturn V every time I post something on the router. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Yea I guess a clear one would be impractical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 hours ago, wdwerker said: I read the heading and thought " no it's Saturn V, they never built the Saturn II " Space and sci-fi was an obsession back in the day. If by "back in the day" you mean earlier today then +1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 It's been a few weeks since I updated this build because I was having some problems with the rack & pinion drive units. Circles weren't circles, no matter what I adjusted in the Mach3 controller software or in the hardware. These drives are a newer version of the FineLine Automation (the manufacturer of the router) drives that were used on the original Saturn. They're very close, but not quite ready for prime time, IMO. Nate was gracious enough to refund us the full value of the drives so we could get the CNC Router Parts drives which his are patterned after. Cost less than $200 to swap all 3 drives and I'm happy to report they are spot on. We're now holding +/- 0.0013" consistently on our circles. Backlash is less than we can measure with very good equipment. (Carl ran the Stanford physics dept's metal shop before retiring. he's got good stuff!) Now I can't wait to start on projects! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 What is up first? Got any ideas yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Chet said: What is up first? Got any ideas yet. Yep. I'm teaching a CNC for woodworking class at the local college starting next week. I have 4 beginner projects to prototype for the class, a slot mortiser, table saw sled with miter insert, a table saw dovetail sled and a box joint jig. Carl has a fancy cutting board to cut. Then I'm going to play with making some forms for bent lamination projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 I have a Morris Chair slated here real soon and I can see were a CNC would be nice for knocking out the forms for the bent laminations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, Chet said: I have a Morris Chair slated here real soon and I can see were a CNC would be nice for knocking out the forms for the bent laminations. I don't know that i'd do the whole form but the first layer for sure. Stacking and indexing to make sure they are all lined up seems like it'd be a pain. I'm going to be starting on my forms this week/weekend it's not something i'm looking forward to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 42 minutes ago, Chestnut said: Stacking and indexing to make sure they are all lined up seems like it'd be a pain Yea, I never actually thought of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difalkner Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Mick S said: It's been a few weeks since I updated this build because I was having some problems with the rack & pinion drive units. Circles weren't circles, no matter what I adjusted in the Mach3 controller software or in the hardware. These drives are a newer version of the FineLine Automation (the manufacturer of the router) drives that were used on the original Saturn. They're very close, but not quite ready for prime time, IMO. Nate was gracious enough to refund us the full value of the drives so we could get the CNC Router Parts drives which his are patterned after. Cost less than $200 to swap all 3 drives and I'm happy to report they are spot on. We're now holding +/- 0.0013" consistently on our circles. Backlash is less than we can measure with very good equipment. (Carl ran the Stanford physics dept's metal shop before retiring. he's got good stuff!) Now I can't wait to start on projects! What test did you do for the circles, Mick? I have drawn some circles, squares, and rectangles in Fusion 360 and used those. I need to do it again, though. Lately when I do an inlay the outside of the inlay is correct but the pocket is a few thousandths shy and the inlay won't fit. I've just been going back into F360 and adding 0.005" to the cavity but I shouldn't have to do that. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, difalkner said: What test did you do for the circles, Mick? I did circles of 4", 6" 8" and 10" diameters. I drew and toolpathed them in both VCarve Pro and EnRoute using a couple of different posts for each. We used a Starrett caliper to measure all but the 10". We also did rectangles and squares and measured those - spot on for our purposes - 5/10,000". I have not used Fusion 360 for inlays. Most CAD/CAM software that has an inlay feature will ask for an offset gap to allow the proper fit. Sounds like you're doing it manually. These CRP drives are really nice. After installing them I ran the auto step calibration in Mach3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difalkner Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Yes, I'm doing it manually but it's easy enough to do an offset of 0.010" to 0.015" for the inlay piece. That's still a fairly tight inlay unless it's Abalone for a guitar and allows for glue. This cross, for instance, fit perfectly with minimum tweaking I haven't tried to correct it but really need to because I have some more intricate inlay work to do. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 The nice thing about the inlay feature in EnRoute and others is that it automatically compensates for the gap radii as long as you're using the same tool for both male and female. The cross sitting on the cutting board looks like it has sharp corners. I'm assuming that you manually sand or round them somehow. VCarve and EnRoute put the matching radius on the male outside corners based on your tool diameter plus the offset gap. I normally set my gap to .008" depending on the material and purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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