drzaius Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 Ya, those are 2 thing's I happily pay others to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Robert Morse Posted June 25, 2018 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted June 25, 2018 I ended up at the office for 6 hours on Thursday after donuts with the kids for the last day of school. Work was only supposed to last for 2 hours, but stuff happens...). On Thursday night and Friday morning, I finished up the last of the insulation, which included ripping a 14 degree bevel on some nailers for the bottom edge of the ceiling panels, and installing them with glue and pocket screws (how does the first "project" in my shop end up needing the damn Kreg jig?). Then I started reading the installation instructions for the ClearVue - I'm glad I did, because they recommended having the 120v outlet for the remote control they provide on the same circuit as your lights (to prevent interference). So I ran the last of my 14ga wire from the light box in the ceiling down to the corner where I'm installing the dust collector, and put in yet another blue box. On Friday afternoon, we ran out to pick up the panels and a metal shear (shears?). One of my buddies from work stopped by, and we planned out how to actually lift and install the panels. The plan seemed so easy on Friday night... I spent a couple hours on Saturday morning getting the J-channel installed around the perimeter of the ceiling of the north-most bay, and then I installed a 9" wide strip of metal where the interior roof pitch changes, right at the top by the windows. Remember the post earlier about what I would have done differently? I should have had the windows lowered by about 8" from the top of the walls - the top of the window framing is above the interior height of the ceiling... Once we did the first bay, the next one went quickly. I still need to do the bay with the garage door, but that's a one person job, so we decided to press forward on installing the panels instead. For those complaining about installing overhead insulation: I've found something way worse: Installing corrugated metal panels overhead. Lining up the seams while holding the panel overhead was extremely difficult to get right, at least at first. My Dad came down for a couple of days to help out with the panels... He's on doctors orders not to get on ladders, so he helped from the ground with a specially modified "broom-lift" which allowed him to hold up one end of a panel while I screwed it to the ceiling. In the picture below, you can actually see the shadows of the misaligned seams on the panels we already installed. It took us 3 tries (and a LOT of colorful language) to get the panels lined up perfectly, but we finally got the hang of it on Sunday, right before he left to go home. FYI, those shadows over the seams disappeared once we got good at lining them up. After all the great progress this past week, it was disappointing to not get more done... I've installed corrugated metal roofing the "normal" way (on top of the framing), and it was EASY, so it was a major let down to only get as far as we did - I really thought we'd finish the entire ceiling. But I have to say: Once we got the seams straightened out and few more panels in, I love the way the ceiling looks. Its clean and even the Wife came out and said "That looks GREAT!" On the plus side, I also installed the first of twelve 4200 lumen/5000K LED panels - those are going to be NICE when they're all in. I spent so much time working this past week, I didn't get a lot of pictures taken, but I'll get some after work this week and add them to the thread. Oh and I also learned that having someone else out there helping (and putting away tools) means I can never find anything... I'm going to spend a couple of hours tonight re-organizing so I know where every thing is, again. The Wife went to an event with her friends last night, so I took the evening off and hung out with the kids. We went to a park to play lacrosse for a while, then out to dinner, and we even stopped for ice cream on the way home. After the past 10 days of HARD work on the shop, it was a great reminder about what's important. More to come later this week! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted June 25, 2018 Report Share Posted June 25, 2018 Any overhead job is hard, no matter how you figure it. Any time I do anything overhead, I tip my hat to Michelangelo, because nothing anyone has ever done since approaches the Sistine Chapel ceiling. Everyone acknowledges that it's amazing. People who have worked overhead, even for one day, or part of a day, have a much better understanding. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morse Posted June 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/20/2018 at 1:42 PM, VizslaDad said: SLIIIICK. Nice work. What type of ducting are you going to run? SDR - that's what I used in the floor, and it's cheap enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morse Posted June 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, Tom King said: Any overhead job is hard, no matter how you figure it. Any time I do anything overhead, I tip my hat to Michelangelo, because nothing anyone has ever done since approaches the Sistine Chapel ceiling. Everyone acknowledges that it's amazing. People who have worked overhead, even for one day, or part of a day, have a much better understanding. The ceiling is reinforcing what I already knew: definitely a ton of respect for folks who can do precise, detail work in awkward positions, especially overhead. I meant to respond to your other post on the insulation earlier - sorry. In hindsight, I actually didn't mind the insulation as much... it was itchy and uncomfortable, but the mask and gloves addressed most of that. The pain in my bad shoulder was, well, bad, but it was offset by seeing visible progress each day in the coverage of the walls and ceiling. I think that's what is bothering most about this weekend's work: We busted our butts, and only got halfway thru 1 bay... Not much return from our ton of effort. I'm trying to remember that my day job is in IT, and I'm not doing construction day-in and day-out (so things will take much longer) but I really expected more progress. I suppose I learned a bit along the way, and that will help the rest of the work go more smoothly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morse Posted June 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/22/2018 at 6:48 PM, wdwerker said: Insulation and Sheetrock work is for people who haven't learned the skills to do something more profitable and less miserable. If you choose to do your own I understand, but would you do it for the going rate ? LOL. I get it - especially the drywall sanding (we hired out our last big job with overhead mud and tape). But in this case, we blew part of the budget on the site prep work we had to/chose to do, and as a result, I've had to make that up with sweat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted June 25, 2018 Report Share Posted June 25, 2018 You'll appreciate it even more once it's done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morse Posted June 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 A quick mid-week update: after work this week, I managed to get the tall wall on the first of the 3 bays, sheathed with metal. The j-channel around the windows look a little rough, but I really like the clean lines. On the next bay, I'm going to try to line up and match the rib pattern on the ceiling (missed opportunity on this bay). Now I just need to get my Dad back down here so we can install the rest of the ceiling panels! Casing the exposed framing in the window space is going to be a major pain though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Robert Morse Posted July 2, 2018 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 Well, after a bit of struggle, we finished the ceiling the first bay. There are a couple of panels at the end which went in a bit crooked, but after agonizing over them, the fix just wasn't worth the effort, because we were off on the first panel by a bit less than a quarter of an inch, and it translated to 3/8-1/2" when we got to the opposite corner. The lesson learned is to be more careful placing the first panel. We also hung up the first 4 real shop lights (I've been using some Costco specials in there as temp lights - so the last step on this bay is to get some of those 3M command strips to hold up the cords so they don't dangle. I'm very happy with the look, I just wish we had executed it a bit better. But the next 2 bays should go WAY better with what we learned on this one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehawk Posted July 3, 2018 Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 Hi, Just curious does the metal sheeting substitute for a vapor barrier? I did the same ceiling in my shop and added one. I am now wondering if it was unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morse Posted July 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 13 hours ago, Firehawk said: Hi, Just curious does the metal sheeting substitute for a vapor barrier? I did the same ceiling in my shop and added one. I am now wondering if it was unnecessary. I decided to match our home, which has vapor barrier on the outer wall, and then insulation/framing, with drywall on the inside... Our climate is fairly moderate as well, so we don't see the temperature extremes that other locations have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted July 3, 2018 Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 FYI, metal will collect vapor under the correct conditions. If a vapor barrier is used behind the metal, an air gap is advised. I say this with IN experience where 90° at 90% humidity are common. The cool metal will condense the humidity just like the concrete will. Obviously in Tucson (where I am visiting family) this concept is completely foreign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morse Posted July 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 39 minutes ago, Tpt life said: FYI, metal will collect vapor under the correct conditions. If a vapor barrier is used behind the metal, an air gap is advised. I say this with IN experience where 90° at 90% humidity are common. The cool metal will condense the humidity just like the concrete will. Obviously in Tucson (where I am visiting family) this concept is completely foreign. Yeah, I was torn on that, but based on the feedback from the builder, and other structures around here, I think we're set up properly for our location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted July 3, 2018 Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 No need for a second vapor barrier behind the metal. A very small amount could get behind the ribs, if they're open on either end, but I wouldn't think it would be much. If they are wide open on both ends, then it would be better to have a backup. All the shed roofs that I have metal over purlins only, drip water under just the right/wrong conditions. Any built since the first ones get solid sheathing, and tar paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morse Posted July 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tom King said: No need for a second vapor barrier behind the metal. A very small amount could get behind the ribs, if they're open on either end, but I wouldn't think it would be much. If they are wide open on both ends, then it would be better to have a backup. All the shed roofs that I have metal over purlins only, drip water under just the right/wrong conditions. Any built since the first ones get solid sheathing, and tar paper. Thanks Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morse Posted July 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 Just a quick update - The boy's birthday was this week, and turning 7 is a BIG DEAL. So once the second party was finished (family only this time, the first party was for school friends last week), I ran to home depot for screws, and Cat6 connectors (gotta get set up for internet access too). Then I got started (AND FINISHED!) installing J-channel all around the second bay. I also spent a an hour cleaning up a HUGE pile of insulation scraps I've been moving out of my way for the past couple of weeks. My Dad is coming back tomorrow, and we'll see how far we get installing panels in the second bay... The end is ALMOST in sight, which means I can do some woodworking again finally. I'll post pictures of tomorrow's progress. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morse Posted July 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 Lots of progress yesterday: made a run to a different Lowes and bought all of their white J-Channel (I think I'll need another 7 sticks of this to finish up), and then get started on the first of the angled walls while I waited for my Dad to arrive. I decided to install the bottom j-Channel after all of the wall panels are installed, because the angles are tricky. Once my Dad arrived, we got started on the center bay... this one went WAY smoother than the first one, and it looks better as well! We finished 8 of the 12 panels before he had to take off in the late afternoon. Tonight, I'm hoping to have the wife come help hang the last 4 panels so this bay can be done too. There's just no way I can see to hang the ceiling panels by myself, so progress is dependent on the availability of reliable assistance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaDad Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, Robert Morse said: ...There's just no way I can see to hang the ceiling panels by myself, so progress is dependent on the availability of reliable assistance. You could rent a drywall lift and scaffolding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morse Posted July 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 On 7/9/2018 at 10:34 AM, VizslaDad said: You could rent a drywall lift and scaffolding! I need a lift that will get the end up 15'... the ones at the rental place only go to 12. I've spent the last 2 nights getting ready for the final ceiling push. My dad is coming down for one last weekend, and we're going to hang all 16 remaining ceiling panels. I've had some prep work to get done before we start on that: * I installed steel and J-channel on the top 6' of the wall section near the garage door, which was necessary in order to... * Install a shortened, heavy duty shelf bracket to hold up the garage door rail on the wall side. The bracket the door installers used was perforated angle hanging from the ceiling. It blocked the window, and would have had to be moved/removed to install the ceiling panel anyway. This looks MUCH better, and is more secure and stable too! * Then I installed 2/3 of the j-channel needed for the last bay. Only 3 sticks left to finish up the ceiling, which I'll finish tonight. (no pictures of this...) I've been hand cutting the rip cuts near ribs because the harbor freight power shears don't work too close to a rib, but hand cutting was leaving a jagged edge. Because I got fed up with blood all over the panels last night, I went and bought a new best friend - this Milwaukee metal shear(s?) is FANTASTIC. Much lighter, far quieter, and far less effort is required to make the cuts. In related news, I can now make super cool metal noodles, and also the stock price of Band-Aids just took huge hit. I'm MORE than ready to be done with the metal work on this building... but the end is in sight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 Looks great! I bet you'll be glad to have that done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RichardA Posted July 13, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 Are you going to date the construction? You've left DNA as your signature, so all that's needed is the date. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 Looking good. What are you putting on the lower portions of the walls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morse Posted July 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chet said: Looking good. What are you putting on the lower portions of the walls? Drywall... I had planned to do ply, but I like the look of clean, smooth drywall better. I will put a French cleat strip all the way around the top of the drywall for hanging stuff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 When cutting with snips, don't squeeze the handles all the way together with each bite. In other words, the pointy ends of the snips don't come together, or even penetrate the metal surface. Take as much of a bite as you can, without that penetration, slide the snips forward, and repeat as neceassary. If you make complete cuts at each bite, you end up with a series of what we call "meat hooks". The meat is going to be yours. I don't know if this was the trouble or not. I use various shears and nibblers too, but when I want a straight, smooth cut, I use hand snips. The same technique is used when cutting anything with scissors, that you can start a cut and just slide the scissors along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morse Posted July 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tom King said: When cutting with snips, don't squeeze the handles all the way together with each bite. In other words, the pointy ends of the snips don't come together, or even penetrate the metal surface. Take as much of a bite as you can, without that penetration, slide the snips forward, and repeat as neceassary. Thanks for the tips - I had been very careful about not letting the tips close, the issue I was having was some of the cuts were right next to the ribs, and the snips would get stuck. Getting them unstuck would put a little wrinkle in the cut edge, that was extra sharp. Also, reaching into the middle of the panel to do cuts was HARD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.