Steve Edgar Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 I just spent an afternoon in the shop and it was good and bad. Good to get in the shop (with heat, we were in the high 20’s today), bad in that I was going to make some box joint with a homemade jig. I made the jig a few years ago and marked the shim needed to make snug joints. Well it worked the last time I used it. I set the Freud dado stack with the requires chippers and blades and the recorded shim. The shim marked was a 4mm. The joints were much too loose. Anyhow, long and the short, the last result i came up with after adding and subtracting shims was sockets at .5” and pins at .010” larger. I think I am saying that’s right, the pins were too fat for the sockets. I quit for the day as football is coming on and the bourbon was calling. My question is, when I next attack this project, do I add shims or subtract shims? I have checked the home built jig and the pin is exactly .5” and the offset from the saw slot is exactly .5”. Ideas? Happy New Year, I’ve been awol for a while..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 My homemade jig is from Shop Notes plan. The spacing and pins are adjustable. Calipers are your friend when setting one of those jigs up. Consistent thickness flat stock is important too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 I use one of these on my router table and when the joint is too tight, I have to move the piece closer to the bit. So I suspect in your case, add shims. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gee-dub Posted January 2, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 I have an i-Box but, as often as not I will just use a sacrificial fence on my sled and a setup bar (if the fingers are whole dimensions). As an example here is a 1/2" finger. I clamp the sac fence to the sled and cut a slot for the setup bar. Slide the sac fence over and slip the setup bar into the slot just cut. Use another setup bar to space the sac fence over and cut a clearance slot. These pictures are not as sequential as they might be. Next time I do this I will be more diligent. Using this method (as opposed to measuring with a rule) I generally get good results right off the bat. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Edgar Posted January 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 I went back to the shop this morning and was able to work out the proper (close enough) solution. I have an inexpensive set of digital calipers and after a little more experimenting I added the proper amount of shims. Last year (same jig) the shim required for snug box joints was .4mm. This year a .5mm shim gets it done. Another question for the box joint crowd. How often do you change the sacrificial fence if you are cutting multiple joints. Is it safe to use only the first cut as long as the height doesn’t change? Do you advance the sacrificial fence with the work piece? Here’s how they came out in some cherry scraps..... The black is in the grain! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmotjr Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Guess I'm getting some setup bars. I got the Kreg set, but theyre just not the right shape for this. Cheaper than the incra jig! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RichardA Posted January 3, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 All wood [with the exception of fossilized wood] Moves. What worked last year because of expansion and contracting that it does through out the seasons. may or may not be the same sizes this year, unless you seal it. And since it's a shop made jig, you can just make a new one, they're not hard to make at all. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Richard is right, wood jigs move and wear too. MDF repeatedly sealed especially on the edges is more stable but it wears too. My jig has replaceable 1/4" MDF sacrificial pieces. Once I get the jig and dado dialed in and cutting right everything gets cut with that setup. I might replace the sacrificial backer piece but height, width never changes or you start over making test cuts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Steve Edgar said: Another question for the box joint crowd. How often do you change the sacrificial fence if you are cutting multiple joints. Is it safe to use only the first cut as long as the height doesn’t change? Do you advance the sacrificial fence with the work piece? As long as I do not lower the height, I use the same notch for all cuts. I do not move the backer with the stock being cut. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharleyL Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Even with an I-Box jig you will need to make minor fit adjustments during different times of the year and different humidity conditions if you try to use the same settings that you used the last time, but doing this is much easier when using an I-Box jig. I must have had almost a dozen wooden box joint jigs in the shop for different sizes of box joints and tight/loose fits. They all went in the burn pile after I bought the I-Box jig. I set it and then make a test cut or two, and it is ready to use. I move the sacrificial piece to a blank position after I have made the final I-Box adjustments and set the blade height. Then I make all of the box joints that are needed without moving the sacrificial strip again, unless I make a change in the settings, or cut so many box joints that the hole develops worn edges, and this only happened on one very large box joint project (1 1/2 days of box joint cutting). If you stay with using our wooden box joint jigs you likely will have the same success with the sacrificial piece. Just position it to an un-cut area after all of your adjustments have been made and make the first cut through it as you begin cutting the box joints. Only change it again if you begin experiencing rough cut edges in your joints. I just added the pictures 2/16/18. The box in the second photo is waiting for more boxes before finish is applied. Who said you can't get good box joints in plywood? I think mine are turning out OK. Charley 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saw-Loco Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Don't know if this thread is dead, but I will ask away. I have been trying to make my own box Jig based on various patterns and You Tube, and I just can't get the fit right. I have used enough test wood to build a garage, and it is still either too loose or too tight. I see in the pics above different fixtures used, and though I don't want to spent $200 on a Porter Cable Jig, I would like to make use of the Box and Dovetail joint. Anyone out there have some advice before I start pulling the walls down for more test pieces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Man i wish i could help but i just bought one of the $200 PC jigs becuase life is too short. That being said you don't necessarily need the whole jig. If you download the supplemental manual for it they have ways to cut the box joints with the templates from the machine and just the templates. http://go.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000211AA.pdf Page 6 is the start. The templates are still $65 though ... there has to be a better way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 I took a Doug Stowe class and I think he used a screw to fine adjust the fit. I'll try and get out to the shop this weekend and find which book he goes through his jig and process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 First let me say that I know how frustrating it can be to fight with something that others seem to be able to do as a matter of course. I still fuss with dovetails even after all this time. Hand sharpening is another area that I get by OK but, am hardly anyone you want to learn from. That being said, the change from too tight to too loose can be in thousandths of an inch over a few inches of fingers. I have an iBox but, just as often do this: Cut a notch in a sacrificial fence, slip a key into it. Use another key (if a wooden key is used, cut both parts off the same blank) to assure the correct offset. Cut the fingers just as you have been. If too tight, a very light little tap with a mallet on the sac-fence will micro-adjust the fit one way or the other, Here's the same thing with a wooden key. Once I have cut enough different notches in the sac-fence, I toss it and start another one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saw-Loco Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 You make it sound easy. that an I must be tapping way too hard. Do you use a second key as a beginning spacer between the finger key and the Dado? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 William Ng has an excellent youtube on building & tuning a box joint jig. I highly recommend it to anyone trying box joints. The jig is easy & quick to build & he does a good job of explaining how to get it dialed in. A very important thing to know is that the joint should slide together fairly easily. If it is snug, then once it has glue on it, it will be near impossible to get together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 They "key" to this style of jig is to first make your spacer / key stock exactly fit the dado kerf. Cut a clean kerf in a piece of scrap, and use it to gauge the size of the key. DO NOT try to measure the width of the dado stack itself - it always cuts wider than you think. This same jig format works with a router table, too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 Every time I see mention box joints, it involves a table saw. There is a jig from Rockler that is used on the router table, when with a little practice, is almost fool proof. When used with a brass spacer bar ( gotta be a better name) and a good quality straight cutting bit, it produces great box joints. I have used this for a couple of years and still use scrap wood of the same thickness as test pieces before jumping into the good stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 7 hours ago, pkinneb said: I took a Doug Stowe class and I think he used a screw to fine adjust the fit. I'll try and get out to the shop this weekend and find which book he goes through his jig and process. @pkinneb, Doug Stowe is my box making hero. One of his books actually got me into woodworking. I don’t know if I should praise or cuss him . I did not know he gave classes. I would love to meet him! How long was the class and when did you take it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 I see blue Rockler sacrificial fence clamps, I hate mine. Then I found the Matchfit clamps that MicroJig sells. They slide in a dovetailed slot and work great. They also fit into a drilled hole for quick set up of a sacrificial fence too. https://www.ptreeusa.com/clamp_dovetail.html I have cut long dovetail slots in jig bases that I use often. The clamp is under the jig and never in the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saw-Loco Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 14 hours ago, wtnhighlander said: They "key" to this style of jig is to first make your spacer / key stock exactly fit the dado kerf. Cut a clean kerf in a piece of scrap, and use it to gauge the size of the key. DO NOT try to measure the width of the dado stack itself - it always cuts wider than you think. This same jig format works with a router table, too. To me Exact would imply the spacer would be a tight fit in the Dado kerf. Don't you need to allow a few thousands to slip the cuts on and off? Maybe it is my misunderstanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 13 hours ago, K Cooper said: @pkinneb, Doug Stowe is my box making hero. One of his books actually got me into woodworking. I don’t know if I should praise or cuss him . I did not know he gave classes. I would love to meet him! How long was the class and when did you take it? We are lucky enough to have a strong woodworking guild here in the twin cities (no thanks to me other than annual dues) and he did a weekend seminar for us last year. If I recall correctly Ronn was in that one too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 hours ago, pkinneb said: We are lucky enough to have a strong woodworking guild here in the twin cities (no thanks to me other than annual dues) and he did a weekend seminar for us last year. If I recall correctly Ronn was in that one too. Yeah one of these days I'll have some free time to go to a meeting or 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chashint Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 Depending on the size of the pin in the jig you may need to glue the front edge to the base of the jig to prevent the pin from flexing. Just a little bit of flex will greatly affect the fit. Hey Chestnut, what do you think of the Porter Cable jig ? Is it east to get the edges of the board perfectly aligned ? I mostly build small decorative boxes instead of furniture. I have a Peach Tree jig (yeah I got suckered in at the woodworking show when it was sill coming to Dallas) and hardly ever use it because it is really just a one trick pony (thru dovetails) and perfect edge alignment is actually very hard to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Chestnut said: Yeah one of these days I'll have some free time to go to a meeting or 2. I do a couple a year but becuase of where I live it is usually a haul so it has to be a topic i'm really interested in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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