AJ_Engineer Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 16 hours ago, Tom King said: I'd tear the whole garage down, build it adjoining the house, make the ridge the same height as the other end, and same roof slope, with a matching hip. You could make it as wide as you wanted to. Draw 24', and see what it looks like. Yeah this is what I was going to write up. Maybe keep the garage in the same location but add the workshop between the house and garage instead of the breezeway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaDad Posted January 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 27 minutes ago, AJ_Engineer said: Yeah this is what I was going to write up. Maybe keep the garage in the same location but add the workshop between the house and garage instead of the breezeway. CEO and I are set on the breezeway (house does not have a mudroom but we need one, and she likes the look we have in mind). Plus the end of the house closest to the garage contains our living room and master bedroom. Not only would would this create much more complex surgery to the house proper than I care to get into myself, but I would be hard pressed to sufficiently abate noise and vibration to an acceptable level. I do appreciate the thoughts though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morse Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 On 1/29/2019 at 6:19 PM, VizslaDad said: My little drawings don’t make it clear but I am planning on 9’ ceilings. My last shop was right at 8’ and it was a pita! 10' would be better - it would give clearance to actually lift/carry long things more easily... I don't know how I got by in garages with 8-9' ceilings before I moved into the current shop. I'm NEVER going back to low ceilings. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaDad Posted January 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Robert Morse said: 10' would be better - it would give clearance to actually lift/carry long things more easily... I don't know how I got by in garages with 8-9' ceilings before I moved into the current shop. I'm NEVER going back to low ceilings. I followed your shop build closely, and it definitely looks like yours is a great living proof example! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post drzaius Posted January 31, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Robert Morse said: 10' would be better - it would give clearance to actually lift/carry long things more easily... I don't know how I got by in garages with 8-9' ceilings before I moved into the current shop. I'm NEVER going back to low ceilings. Agreed. My ceiling is 9'6" & it wouldn't bother me at all to have another 6". (that's NOT what she said) 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just curious because I live on a property with many on the same characteristics....what impact will the breezeway have on accessing the back yard with equipment like skid-steers, backhoes & such? Does the swale/ditch cut the whole property in half? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaDad Posted January 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, RJS said: Just curious because I live on a property with many on the same characteristics....what impact will the breezeway have on accessing the back yard with equipment like skid-steers, backhoes & such? Does the swale/ditch cut the whole property in half? Hey @RJS - great question. The swale definitely cuts the back yard in half, to a point where it drops sharply into a ravine. This will make for a number of nice launching point for a zip line and some future mountain bike/ski trails. The CEO has also requested a series of bridges in the future...hopefully those will help justify a new chainsaw purchase. The driveway/parking area in front of the garage and house is slightly elevated from the area between the house and garage. There is one stone step down to a sloped path that leads into the eastern part of the back yard. The breezeway will eliminate the possibility for anything larger than a riding lawnmower to get back there, though for practical purposes that is not a problem. The setback from my property line to the garage is only 10-15 feet, and mostly tree-lined. "E Yard" in my drawing below is a fairly confined area due to the deep swale and ravines. EMS could get to that yard through my neighbors property in the event of a catastrophe. We have a little bridge by the deck across the swale, and a person can cross the swale itself (albeit with zero expectations of staying clean and dry) when it's not super nasty outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaDad Posted January 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, drzaius said: Agreed. My ceiling is 9'6" & it wouldn't bother me at all to have another 6". (that's NOT what she said) All laughter aside, I am now reconsidering my desire to keep the shop floor level with the garage. So long as I can safely keep surface moisture at bay I think I'm going to try to shoot for steps down to the shop level to maximize the height. Heck, I've dealt with mechanically lifting stuff in my prior shops just fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Engineer Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 4 hours ago, VizslaDad said: All laughter aside, I am now reconsidering my desire to keep the shop floor level with the garage. So long as I can safely keep surface moisture at bay I think I'm going to try to shoot for steps down to the shop level to maximize the height. Heck, I've dealt with mechanically lifting stuff in my prior shops just fine. Some jurisdictions may have issues with steps down to another enclosed living type space from the garage due to carbon monoxide issues. May be OK if you technically call it 'storage/more garage' but something to ask the building dept. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 14 hours ago, AJ_Engineer said: Some jurisdictions may have issues with steps down to another enclosed living type space from the garage due to carbon monoxide issues. May be OK if you technically call it 'storage/more garage' but something to ask the building dept. I know around here there has to be a step up or a curb from the garage into a living space, but I don't know how high that is. Not sure what would be required in this case, but it's something that needs to be considered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaDad Posted February 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 @drzaius & @AJ_Engineer oh, good point. I also worry that the need for stairs down to a lower level will impact my working floor space, and my original approximate plan was pushing the CEO's acceptable tolerance for eating up backyard outdoor space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post VizslaDad Posted October 7, 2019 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Big update! I have opted to remodel my detached garage vs. building a standalone dedicated shop building. The mandated setbacks and peculiarities of my yard would make building the standalone shop problematic. This realization was a little bit of a bummer, but the CEO has been supportive of my efforts to shore up the detached garage. Here's where I am now: Electrical I needed to improve the power supply. The garage had one circuit run out to it from the main panel when we bought the place. This was clearly not going to cut it, so I hired an electrician to install a 60amp panel. Unfortunately, it did not work out logistically for me to rent a trencher, so I cut a trench for conduit from my house to the garage (close to 50'). Suffice as to say this was fairly unpleasant due to our lovely clay soils. I very literally was cutting and lifting out bricks of clay with a mattock, which then had to be knocked off the blade by hand each time. It took me three days (before work, after work time) to cut the trench. I made sure to lay a length of conduit in the trench for an ethernet cable. I work from home 4/5 of the time, as does my wife. My work typically requires me to be video conferences, and I tend to project my voice in those situations much to my wife's chagrin. Thus there is a possibility that I will set up my office out in the shop when it's put together, and our wifi as-is probably wouldn't work. My current home office is adjacent to the spot the electrical service leaves the house and travels to the garage. It will be straightforward to cut a hole in the exterior wall, run the ethernet cable, and install a jack with another line to our router inside the office. Next steps re: the electrical will be to surface mount EMT conduit and wire a few circuits. This will occur after I've finished insulating and covering the walls (see below). None of my tools are wired for 220v yet so I'm only going to run 20amp 110v circuits and receptacles for the time being. Building Envelope I wanted to make sure I didn't waste time and money insulating and air-sealing the space (or even worse, create a problem that shortens the building's remaining life vs. lengthening it). I spent a good amount of time on https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com and Finehomebuilding.com, asked some questions, and received excellent answers specific to the particulars of my building. I even wrote into the Fine Homebuilding podcast and they discussed my project in episode 192: https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2019/08/09/podcast-192-garage-workshop-conversion-contractor-web-marketing-and-saying-no-to-clients The approach I settled on considering cost control is paramount and the fact that I have a low-sloped/flat roof is to: 1. air seal with installed closed cell spray foam insulation 2. augment with fluffy insulation (fiberglass, as mineral wool would blow my budget to pieces) 3. hang 1/2" 4-ply sheathing plywood on the walls and 7/16 osb on the ceiling 4. improve the seal around the garage door and man doors Step 1 is complete: I am looking forward to making a bunch of sawdust and getting that plywood and osb in place. Fingers crossed that work, family, and health all align to enable me to button this up before the snow flies! 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 That does look like a pain in the butt...having said that what an upgrade to go from one ckt to a sub panel, opens up a lot of options. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 Looks like you are working towards a shop again. That will be exciting once you get set up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaDad Posted October 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 14 hours ago, pkinneb said: That does look like a pain in the butt...having said that what an upgrade to go from one ckt to a sub panel, opens up a lot of options. Well I was going to build a whole separate building from scratch, and was excited to do so, so this is only a minor PITA. The challenge now will be to do just enough wiring to get started and have a little room to grow but not so much I have to rip it all apart and redo it when the inevitable shop reconfigurations occur. 1 hour ago, Chestnut said: Looks like you are working towards a shop again. That will be exciting once you get set up. Yup. Never really stopped, just had little of consequence to share. I am excited to be off and running now though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Beasley Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 As far as the wiring its not much more trouble to prep the building for 220 from the house. You dont need to wire in the 220 circuits in the shop until you need them but when you do it will make life a lot easier if the run from the house was already in and wired to your sub panel in the shop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collinb Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 6:13 PM, Tom King said: I'd tear the whole garage down, build it adjoining the house, make the ridge the same height as the other end, and same roof slope, with a matching hip. You could make it as wide as you wanted to. Draw 24', and see what it looks like. Many times rebuilding costs not much more, may even take less time than a half-rebuild, and will give you want you want. Becaue that seems to be the dilemma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, collinb said: Many times rebuilding costs not much more, may even take less time than a half-rebuild, and will give you want you want. Becaue that seems to be the dilemma. No kidding. I drove past a local Taco Bell recently, with "Closed for Remodeling" on the sign. The building had disappeared. That sometimes works out for a corporation, but rarely for an individual. At least, not me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post VizslaDad Posted October 9, 2019 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 On 10/8/2019 at 4:36 PM, Gary Beasley said: As far as the wiring its not much more trouble to prep the building for 220 from the house. You dont need to wire in the 220 circuits in the shop until you need them but when you do it will make life a lot easier if the run from the house was already in and wired to your sub panel in the shop. I paid an electrician to wire and energize my new 60amp panel in the shop/garage. He tied it into my main panel. Apparently, technically, the panel in the shop/garage is not a sub panel. It has its own ground rod etc. @wtnhighlander @collinb I am on track to insulate, wire, and otherwise spruce up my detached garage for under $7k...and then I will be 100% able to focus my spare time on woodworking for the first time in over two years. Nearly $5k of that $7k is just in the spray foam and electrical panel installations. If I lived in an area that was less persnickety about development I might be able to get away with a cheap rebuild. Unfortunately, given my town's requirements there isn't a practical way for me to avoid paying an architect, acquiring full permits, and contracting out a full rebuild. I even brought in a contractor my wife and I have used for two full-gut remodels in Cleveland to assess the situation, and he brought his concrete guy to check out the existing garage's slab and foundation. Long story short, it would have been a miracle to build a new garage that matched the aesthetics of our home and met local requirements for anything less than $35k...scratch I do not have! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Beasley Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 58 minutes ago, VizslaDad said: I paid an electrician to wire and energize my new 60amp panel in the shop/garage. He tied it into my main panel. Apparently, technically, the panel in the shop/garage is not a sub panel. It has its own ground rod etc. If thats the case odds are you are already prepped for 220. If you were to look inside the box and you have two heavy black cables and a neutral line coming in you’re set. Did he put a breaker in the main panel for the shop or jumper on to the mains? If a breaker and its a ganged double its 220. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaDad Posted October 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 49 minutes ago, Gary Beasley said: If thats the case odds are you are already prepped for 220. If you were to look inside the box and you have two heavy black cables and a neutral line coming in you’re set. Did he put a breaker in the main panel for the shop or jumper on to the mains? If a breaker and its a ganged double its 220. Yes, that's the setup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wtnhighlander Posted October 10, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 hours ago, VizslaDad said: Unfortunately, given my town's requirements there isn't a practical way for me to avoid paying an architect, acquiring full permits, and contracting out a full rebuild. I knew there was at least one reason I like living in the middle of nowhere! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Amen, for living in the middle of nowhere. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chestnut Posted October 10, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 11 hours ago, wtnhighlander said: I knew there was at least one reason I like living in the middle of nowhere! 11 hours ago, RichardA said: Amen, for living in the middle of nowhere. I never understood why other people talk so poorly about the middle of nowhere. It's such a great place, no people and more freedom to do what ever you want. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post VizslaDad Posted February 7, 2020 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 Hello again from Ohio - I have made substantial (to me) progress on my shop build. My pace has hastened as my wife is now pregnant with twins and it is my understanding that the likelihood of my having and enjoying shop is zilch if said shop is not completed before the babies are born. Thus I have been burning the candle at both ends between work, baby prep, remodeling a rental, and of course...the shop. Last time I posted I'd had my detached garage air sealed with closed-cell foam and had my electrical panel installed. Some additional demo and electrical updates were then required. I killed power to the original circuits and cut out all the old wiring (ancient Romex stapled to the rafters) and properly terminated the old circuits. I also had to rewire a three-way switch to a flood light attached to the building that's also controllable from the house. Next came the unpleasant task of filling the stud and rafter bays with cheap fiberglass insulation. This was made far less enjoyable by the fact that I couldn't empty the building to give myself room to work. I had to contort myself around bins and tools and my cache of lumber to cut and install every batt. The job took ten times as long as it might have otherwise given all the obstructions, and it's definitely uglier than it ought to be, but it's finished. Now I'm working on the walls and ceilings, which is far more fun. The garage is detached so I am less worried about fire barriers etc. than I would be if it were attached. I've chosen 15/32 4-ply rated sheathing for the walls, and I am undecided as to whether I will also use that on the ceiling or use 7/16 OSB instead. Cost is a major factor in my decision so it'll probably be OSB, but the rafters are on 24" centers. I may have to go the ply route if OSB sags when run perpendicular to the them. The sagging batts are suboptimal but I have them strapped in places, and the ceiling sheeting will compress them in place. This building will not be winning any energy consciousness awards. I've also worked out my wiring plan. I'll run EMT and metal boxes, leaving room in both for future circuits. Paranoid, I dreamt up multiple likely tool layouts (including some with provisions for parking my wife's vehicle per an earlier ill-conceived promise) to ensure my receptacle layout would be flexible enough. This was probably overthinking on my part because the space is 18'x25' and I'm placing plenty of outlets. However, as I worked through my permutations joy of joys struck me when I realized the mom-mobile we recently purchased won't fit in the space with room to open the door! This was doubly good news because I think it unlikely I will be able to build the tool shed in the backyard I'd previously planned due to family expansion budgetary concerns, and the lawn mower etc. still need an accessible place to live. Another bonus to losing the car-parking requirement is that I could conceivably remove the old roll-up door, build insulated carriage doors, and achieve significantly better climate control. Speaking of layout, I think I have settled on a reasonable initial arrangement for my existing tools and benches. Originally I'd planned to just use my 1.5hp Laguna dust collector with a run of flex hose, but now I think I'm going to build a relatively-inexpensive single run of 6" SDR35 pvc with a few blast gates instead. It's great to finally feel close to having a shop again after two years wanting, dreaming, and waiting for it. More to come! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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