SawStop setup issue

[BillyJack]

Any good  brand you like with normal kerf...

I use Tenryu or Amana on my saws. Mainly Amana....I stick with one brand mainly so I don't waste time looking around  like shopping for golf clubs.......

[Mark J]

I don't have any personal opinion, but here is a recent discussion:

Assuming your existing blade is good, it might be wise to buy a rip blade rather than the same as you have.

[Chestnut]

Freud Industrial full kerf. I'd get a blade that has a flat tooth grind (FTG) as that tooth geometry has a lot of uses on a table saw. If you have a combination tooth count a rip tooth count would be beneficial. I don't know what the stock blade is from SS. Reason I say rip blade is because even with a 3 hp saw you really should use the proper blade for the task at hand. Ripping wood over 1.5" thick should be done with a ripping blade. It allows the blade to cut more efficiently building up less heat. Heat will damage saw blades quite quickly.

So i take it the rub is not a consistent rub but sounds like there is something rubbing once per revolution of the blade? Sounds like a warped saw blade to me.

 

[MJC]

Ok so I am a bit frustrated over this saw to say the least.

SawStop called back and said to use the saw that they all rub out of the box like this and that it will go away after some use. He did still suggest getting a good blade because he said they are not in the blade market. My initial question to them was why was I buying a new blade to troubleshoot the saw when they should send me a new blade to do this.

Any thoughts were on this blade https://www.woodcraft.com/products/forrest-ww10407125-woodworker-ii-carbide-tipped-circular-saw-blade-10-x-40-tooth  

 

 

[MJC]

59 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Freud Industrial full kerf. I'd get a blade that has a flat tooth grind (FTG) as that tooth geometry has a lot of uses on a table saw. If you have a combination tooth count a rip tooth count would be beneficial. I don't know what the stock blade is from SS. Reason I say rip blade is because even with a 3 hp saw you really should use the proper blade for the task at hand. Ripping wood over 1.5" thick should be done with a ripping blade. It allows the blade to cut more efficiently building up less heat. Heat will damage saw blades quite quickly.

So i take it the rub is not a consistent rub but sounds like there is something rubbing once per revolution of the blade? Sounds like a warped saw blade to me.

 

Now that I ran the blade up and down and then they had me do it at a 45 it has limited the amount of rub quite a bit. 

[Chestnut]

12 minutes ago, MJC said:

Any thoughts were on this blade https://www.woodcraft.com/products/forrest-ww10407125-woodworker-ii-carbide-tipped-circular-saw-blade-10-x-40-tooth  

Personally Forrest WWII's are WAY over rated. You could get a freud Industrial that will perform as good and cost 1/3rd as much. I have quite a few Freud Industrial blades they are good blades that last a long time. They have good thick carbide and can be resharpened 3-5 times before they need to be replaced. This is the same as the Forrest blades I have. CMT Industrial blades are just as good but i don't have experience as I like Red more than Orange....

I have a Forrest WWII spent a lot on it, it cuts wood, i don't really care for it. Reason I don't like it is mine developed a wobble after little use and doesn't cut clean. Also the saw plate rings really badly causing the blade to be really loud while cutting vs the Freud counterpart.

This blade is the one i use 90% of the time been running it for 4 years now still sharp.

https://www.amazon.com/Freud-50T-Combination-Blade-LU84R011/dp/B0000225V8/ref=pd_bxgy_2/140-8593622-0421269?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0000225V8&pd_rd_r=3efc1838-42a6-4615-ad55-d8bd0b2261bf&pd_rd_w=nYM3G&pd_rd_wg=LwfR8&pf_rd_p=fd08095f-55ff-4a15-9b49-4a1a719225a9&pf_rd_r=1ACQBGMT342WJG078NFJ&psc=1&refRID=1ACQBGMT342WJG078NFJ

If i need to rip thick hadwoods I switch blades to something like this.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000225UD/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_6?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

[Jfitz]

44 minutes ago, MJC said:

Any thoughts were on this blade https://www.woodcraft.com/products/forrest-ww10407125-woodworker-ii-carbide-tipped-circular-saw-blade-10-x-40-tooth  

I run that blade, and I like it.  A lot of people like the Freuds, and there are other blades out there that get good reviews (Ridge Carbide, Tenryu).

+1 to Chestnut's advice above about a rip blade... even if you have a good combo blade, get a rip blade for the thicker rip cuts.

[Bmac]

I have to step back to something @gee-dub asked earlier, I apoligize if it was answered but I didn't see it answered. The ZCI that came with my sawstop had no slot cut into it. The directions were to lower the blade, put the insert in, turn blade on and slowly raise the blade to cut the slot. That's the whole idea behind the ZCI insert, the slot is only supposed to be as wide as the blade and the slot needs to be cut out by your blade. Was that how your insert was supplied or did it already have the slot cut?

If it already had the slot cut in your ZCI (which would make me wonder why we are calling it a ZCI), the slot is probably the reason. Saw blades are thickest at the teeth, when you raise the blade the thinner part of the blade was not rubbing the slot at the problem area, when you lower the blade the thicker teeth are hitting the slot in the problem area. If the slot was already cut I just think the slot is off, to me that seems the most logical cause. 

If you actually cut the slot than in theory you should have no rubbing. But if there is rubbing it likely means you just need to run the saw and cut the slot wider by raising and lowering the blade.  

Ditto on the Freud blades, just stay away from the thin kerf models, they are typicall too thin for the riving knife. 

[Mick S]

6 minutes ago, Bmac said:

I have to step back to something @gee-dub asked earlier, I apoligize if it was answered but I didn't see it answered. The ZCI that came with my sawstop had no slot cut into it. The directions were to lower the blade, put the insert in, turn blade on and slowly raise the blade to cut the slot. That's the whole idea behind the ZCI insert, the slot is only supposed to be as wide as the blade and the slot needs to be cut out by your blade. Was that how your insert was supplied or did it already have the slot cut?

If it already had the slot cut in your ZCI (which would make me wonder why we are calling it a ZCI), the slot is probably the reason. Saw blades are thickest at the teeth, when you raise the blade the thinner part of the blade was not rubbing the slot at the problem area, when you lower the blade the thicker teeth are hitting the slot in the problem area. If the slot was already cut I just think the slot is off, to me that seems the most logical cause. 

If you actually cut the slot than in theory you should have no rubbing. But if there is rubbing it likely means you just need to run the saw and cut the slot wider by raising and lowering the blade.  

Ditto on the Freud blades, just stay away from the thin kerf models, they are typicall too thin for the riving knife. 

I'm kind of at a loss also. I don't see that it's a problem at all. That's how ZCIs work.

[MJC]

1 hour ago, Chestnut said:

Personally Forrest WWII's are WAY over rated. You could get a freud Industrial that will perform as good and cost 1/3rd as much. I have quite a few Freud Industrial blades they are good blades that last a long time. They have good thick carbide and can be resharpened 3-5 times before they need to be replaced. This is the same as the Forrest blades I have. CMT Industrial blades are just as good but i don't have experience as I like Red more than Orange....

I have a Forrest WWII spent a lot on it, it cuts wood, i don't really care for it. Reason I don't like it is mine developed a wobble after little use and doesn't cut clean. Also the saw plate rings really badly causing the blade to be really loud while cutting vs the Freud counterpart.

This blade is the one i use 90% of the time been running it for 4 years now still sharp.

https://www.amazon.com/Freud-50T-Combination-Blade-LU84R011/dp/B0000225V8/ref=pd_bxgy_2/140-8593622-0421269?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0000225V8&pd_rd_r=3efc1838-42a6-4615-ad55-d8bd0b2261bf&pd_rd_w=nYM3G&pd_rd_wg=LwfR8&pf_rd_p=fd08095f-55ff-4a15-9b49-4a1a719225a9&pf_rd_r=1ACQBGMT342WJG078NFJ&psc=1&refRID=1ACQBGMT342WJG078NFJ

If i need to rip thick hadwoods I switch blades to something like this.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000225UD/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_6?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

Thanks Chestnut!

[MJC]

17 minutes ago, Bmac said:

I have to step back to something @gee-dub asked earlier, I apoligize if it was answered but I didn't see it answered. The ZCI that came with my sawstop had no slot cut into it. The directions were to lower the blade, put the insert in, turn blade on and slowly raise the blade to cut the slot. That's the whole idea behind the ZCI insert, the slot is only supposed to be as wide as the blade and the slot needs to be cut out by your blade. Was that how your insert was supplied or did it already have the slot cut?

If it already had the slot cut in your ZCI (which would make me wonder why we are calling it a ZCI), the slot is probably the reason. Saw blades are thickest at the teeth, when you raise the blade the thinner part of the blade was not rubbing the slot at the problem area, when you lower the blade the thicker teeth are hitting the slot in the problem area. If the slot was already cut I just think the slot is off, to me that seems the most logical cause. 

If you actually cut the slot than in theory you should have no rubbing. But if there is rubbing it likely means you just need to run the saw and cut the slot wider by raising and lowering the blade.  

Ditto on the Freud blades, just stay away from the thin kerf models, they are typicall too thin for the riving knife. 

Yes the slot was already cut.

[Chip Sawdust]

I second Chestnut’s 50T Freud combo. I’ve been running one of those for a long time now and although I see a couple chips in it now, it still cuts nice and smooth. It is a thinner kerf than some, but that doesn’t seem to be an issue for either saw I have (DeWalt and Ridgid). But I also have the thicker rip blade, and the 40T blade that came with the saw (I think I’ve used it once, maybe twice). It’s not a bad blade, but I like the good blades better. They’re gooder  

Have you tried putting blade stabilizers on your blade? That’ll throw off the riving knife setting but it should take out the blade wobble. That is, if I’m following this thread correctly. 
For ZCIs I’ve always bought non-cut inserts and raised my blade into them; a blade stabilizer will of course offset any ZCI cut so make sure you want to use it (or not) before cutting your insert. 

[MJC]

So not sure if anyone else is interested but Travis Davis is the guy I spoke with last from Saw Stop and was really helpful. He has a page that is setup for SawStop owners who can go there for information and I believe he said it is linked to Facebook somehow. I don't have Facebook and I don't know how it works. Anyway I guess he and maybe some others monitor the page on weekends when there is no support available at the company. I thought this was pretty cool and shows how much passion they have for this. 

https://www.trentdavis.net/wp/2018/08/06/helpful-sawstop-links/

I appreciate all the help from everyone and I guess I can go make some test cuts and see how those come out.

[Barron]

I really like the Forest WW II.  No problems, cuts great and when it does get dull I send it back to get resharpened. While I have the 3hp Sawstop, I do most of my rips 8/4 and above on the bandsaw.  Just feels more comfortable. 

[Chet]

Interesting website and it has things not related to woodworking if you are interested.

 

[BillyJack]

I ran a comparison between  Amana and Freud and found the Amana gave me more routes between sharpenings. I can only imagine the Freud saw blades would be less as well. I had Charles from Freud on Woodnet tell me it must be a bad raised panel bit. I guess that's always the answer.  

I prefer to pay a dollar more and save it o the sharpenings as there will be less...

[Minnesota Steve]

I'll just toss this warning out...  Freud thin kerf blades have a kerf of .091"... which is too thin for the sawstop riving knife and guard.

I messed up, misread the package on a Fusion P410T blade I bought last year and finally tried to use... it said 3/32" and then after it was binding up on me I saw the .091" below the 3/32".

 

 

[MJC]

6 hours ago, Minnesota Steve said:

I'll just toss this warning out...  Freud thin kerf blades have a kerf of .091"... which is too thin for the sawstop riving knife and guard.

I messed up, misread the package on a Fusion P410T blade I bought last year and finally tried to use... it said 3/32" and then after it was binding up on me I saw the .091" below the 3/32".

 

 

4 post up I posted a link from a sawstop tech guy. Read the post about Thin Kerf Blades and Riving Knives. You can use the blade you mention if you adjust the riving knife. He explains everything in in great detail on his page.

[MJC]

Just an update on the blade issue (or non-issue)

I have made cuts and I couldn't be happier. I never had more square cuts of wood in my life! I finished putting together the Incra Cross Cut sled and I hadn't made the cut in the board yet. Well after I did I couldn't believe how clean the edge was on the cut and this was done with the blade that came with the saw. Yes I ended up setting mine up on the left side of the blade. I just feel that is more natural to be on that side so that is what I did. I know it should be on the right because it is a left tilt saw but I didn't wanna do it that way. 

I ended up buying this blade - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000P4QD3E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

And no the saw doesn't sit there all the time against the wall...lol I just have it there so its out of the way when not in use. That is why I have everything on mobile bases in my shop. Not much space and I hate clutter.

 

[Chet]

1 hour ago, MJC said:

I know it should be on the right because it is a left tilt saw but I didn't wanna do it that way. 

Absolutely nothing right or wrong about your choice.  I did my Incra 5000 sled the same way on my saw (SawStop).  The side you are one allows you to use it with your dado stack with the sled, something I do a lot more then the times I have the blade tilted at an angle.  I use my other Incra miter gauge for cuts with the blade set at an angle.

[MJC]

2 hours ago, Chet said:

Absolutely nothing right or wrong about your choice.  I did my Incra 5000 sled the same way on my saw (SawStop).  The side you are one allows you to use it with your dado stack with the sled, something I do a lot more then the times I have the blade tilted at an angle.  I use my other Incra miter gauge for cuts with the blade set at an angle.

Well that is good to know because I never thought about that and wouldn't even have thought that far ahead. I did buy the dado brake and insert I just need to pick out a dado set which I think I am going to go with this one https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW7670-8-Inch-24-Tooth-Stacked/dp/B0002ZU6X4/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1512687796&sr=1-1&keywords=dewalt+dw7670&linkCode=sl1&tag=trentdavisdot-20&linkId=06a4fe387a6631680216b617e48241af 

[MJC]

On 2/9/2020 at 1:28 PM, gee-dub said:

Nope.   That's perfect.  I just normally use the left slot for alignment because that is the one I use my miter gauge in.  This test basically tells us that the blade is rotating on a consistent plane.  That is, it is not wobbling on the arbor or the arbor is not wobbling in the ways, etc.  that's good.

Back to the concern that Mark grabbed on to; why the change when the carriage/trunnion height changes?  Again, we have to be careful that we are not jumping to fix something that is not really a problem.  I've seen so many unhappy people who tear into their jointer tables when a simple fence adjustment was all they needed.

I am going to recap what I think I understand to make sure I don't send you down the rabbit trail:

• When the blade is at or near full height, the blade does not hit the slot sides in the insert.
• When the blade is lowered 1/2" it begins to rub and does so pretty at much any other height.

Now we will look at that plate positioning thing I tossed out earlier.  As the blade is raised and lowered, the tooth's position as it passes through the slot moves forward and back, yes?  Visual aids . . .

Let's adjust the positioning screws to see if we can find a sweet spot.  I will assure you that even if we fail miserably, the blade will clear its own path and as long as nothing else untoward is going on, you're good.

Well look what came today! Now after I go run a couple errands I can check the measurements later with this gauge....after I see how to use it.

[MJC]

Ok so here are the results. I took measurements on the fence and the blade.
 

All that worry was for nothing!!!

 

[Mark J]

Obviously we can't read the dial very well, but it looks like your good to go on those measurements.  

[Chestnut]

Did you try opposite sides of the blade to see if the blade was warped at all? As in leave the dial indicator stationary and rotate the blade 360 degrees and see if the reading changes.