The best safety minded upgrade for my shop?

[bleedinblue]

I haven't made a major tool purchase since my Hammer four'ish years ago.  I've got spousal clearance for a Sawstop and was approved several months ago.  But.  Now I'm wondering if I should skip the SS and get a big boy dust collector instead.

My table saw is a perfectly OK Grizzly 715.  My dust collector is a highly modified Harbor Freight unit.  The Rikon impeller, the massive canister filter, the big Dust Deputy cyclone, and fixed 4" piping to the table saw, jointer/planer, and drum sander.

We have a new baby coming next month.  My shop is in the basement.  I HATE, HATE HATE HATE beating out my dust collector canister filter, which needs to be done a couple or few times a year to keep suction up.  And like the OG Eric used to say, anything less than a 5 HP dust collector basically just gathers the mess, it doesn't help with the harmful fine dust particles that Bill Pence has written extensively on.

But then I think...what if I get the dust collector and then have an accident on my TS?  I'd have a tough time explaining my decision.  But...on that topic, I am stupid anal about push sticks.  Ya'll would probably make fun of me.  Any cut slimmer than 12 inches and I probably have a push stick or a pad in EACH hand.  Plus, based on space alone, I will need to sell my existing table saw before I even take delivery on the SS.  Then I'm back to getting a 450 pound machine through my yard to my walk out...again.  And that sucks.  But maybe my aversion to this is just laziness.

I think I'll need to go with the 3 HP PCS, and with the dust collector, I'm digging the idea of the Oneida Supercell for it's compactness and ability to use 4" ducting.  But if the Clearvue goes on sale again for less than $2200 and free shipping, that would be very tempting too.

Realistically, barring a financial or societal collapse in the coming years, whichever I DON'T buy now I'll likely pick up in the near future anyway.

I'm ranting.

Listening for thoughts.

I'll try to check back in sooner than three months from now. 

 

[Chet]

I will offer this.  When I purchased my SS I had a Delta contractor saw at the time.  When I saw the 4 inch port on the back of the SS in the showroom I asked what it was for.  That was the first time I had ever realized that there was mechanical dust collection available for the hobbyist.  Prior to that I thought dust collection was a broom and dust pan.

On 3/30/2023 at 9:06 AM, bleedinblue said:

But...on that topic, I am stupid anal about push sticks.  Ya'll would probably make fun of me.  Any cut slimmer than 12 inches and I probably have a push stick or a pad in EACH hand.

This doesn't change with a SS.  The safety feature on the SS is in addition to, not instead of being safe and attentive all the time.  Where the SS pays is for those unforeseen happenings.  Since having my SS there hasn't been a single time where I have turned it on and not had 100% respect for the spinning blade, I still don't want to try stopping in by using a body part.

I do wish I had a better dust collector but I think if I had to make the chose, I would still go for the SS first before replacing the 1 3/4 HP collector I have now.  If your dust collector isn't doing anything at all then the decision is tougher.

[legenddc]

I think it's harder to upgrade tools than buy new ones for the exact reasons you mentioned. Clearly the answer is buy both, but I know that might not be realistic. Can you do your job if you have a table saw accident? Might be your answer right there. 

[Chestnut]

1 hour ago, bleedinblue said:

And like the OG Eric used to say, anything less than a 5 HP dust collector basically just gathers the mess, it doesn't help with the harmful fine dust particles that Bill Pence has written extensively on.

It really depends my 3hp oneida does a heck of a lot more than collect the mess. That said digging in the the amp draw and tech specs the CV 1800 of ole was very similar in "collection power" to the 3hp oneida unit I have but it got a 5hp designation for some reason. Also a 5hp unit won't separate fine dust through the cyclone as well if you have a blast gate at each tool and only keep 1 open at a time. When running the drum sander I typically have 3 ports open. This feeds more air into the cyclone and improves separation for physics reasons. Not a big deal just something to be aware of. A 3hp unit should draw less power. May not seem like a big deal but can you tell where my DC was running?

That said. I have a basement shop and one of those finger lopping horror machines as well and I'll take good DC every day. It's harder for my to justify the table saw as most of the cuts made one mine are cross cuts with a miter gauge. In fact i have an 80tooth CC blade mounted and haven't changed it for a good year and a half. This isn't protecting me from the saw at all but the amount of time i use it is significantly less than say my bandsaw. My dust collector fires up for every tool use.

Good dust collection is pretty valuable to me. I went from an unmodified HF unit to the Oneida dust gorilla pro and was amazed at the collection difference. There is a lot more to it than the power numbers. That said filter maintenance is still important. I have to take a leaf blower and clean out my filter 1-2 times per year but i never bang on it.

[GlennL]

With a perfectly good saw, and being as safe as you say you are...DUST is your biggest personal risk enemy!  DC impacts every tool you have that can be potentially connected to it. I vote for the DC upgrade.

I came up with a setup for the bandsaw that made a huge improvement. Between the DC with the cyclone, and a shop vac with the dust deputy 2.5, it collects just about all the dust.

[bleedinblue]

On 3/30/2023 at 12:28 PM, Chet said:

 

This doesn't change with a SS.  The safety feature on the SS is in addition to, not instead of being safe and attentive all the time.  Where the SS pays is for those unforeseen happenings.  Since having my SS there hasn't been a single time where I have turned it on and not had 100% respect for the spinning blade, I still don't want to try stopping in by using a body part.

Aye, yes, of course.  My point by that statement was that I am so careful with the machine that I think my odds of an accident are quite low.

[gee-dub]

I love my sawstop, but good dust collection benefits, every machine in the shop. Not to mention your lungs :-)

[wtnhighlander]

Perfect example of risk vs. reward analysis.  Cutting yourself has a high cost, but the chance that it will happen can be largely eliminated by good safety practices, which ALSO reduce the chance of kick-back injury, more common than cuts.   Sawstop tech ONLY addresses the flesh-cutting situations (even then, only if you don't bypass the detector to make an otherwise impossible cut), and provides nothing additional to reduce kick-back risk, so you are still dependent on good safety practice. 

On the other hand, dust is an ever-present danger that is rather difficult to alleviate without good collection at the source. Safety practices should still come into play (wearable dust protection), but in the situation you described, IMO you will reap a greater benefit from the DC. Just don't be stupid when using the saw!

[Von]

Lot of personal choice here about safety, I'll just say that as I've focused more on dust collection, woodworking has become a lot more pleasurable.

[legenddc]

I believe OP is a police officer, that's why I was asking if he could do his job if he had an accident. I don't know the policies where he works but I imagine having a table saw accident to your hand could put him on desk duty or leave for a while.

[BillyJack]

But then I think...what if I get the dust collector and then have an accident on my TS? 

 

Guess you answered that one.. I lost the tips of two fingers  making dados in 1985. 
 

“What if” is the real question..

 

I would never put a DC in front of my safety..

 

 

[bleedinblue]

On 3/31/2023 at 9:02 AM, legenddc said:

I believe OP is a police officer, that's why I was asking if he could do his job if he had an accident. I don't know the policies where he works but I imagine having a table saw accident to your hand could put him on desk duty or leave for a while.

Facts.  On the other hand, the way this career has been going...how many fingers would it take to get a full medical retirement?  

On 3/31/2023 at 9:43 AM, BillyJack said:

But then I think...what if I get the dust collector and then have an accident on my TS? 

 

Guess you answered that one.. I lost the tips of two fingers  making dados in 1985. 
 

“What if” is the real question..

 

I would never put a DC in front of my safety..

 

 

Dang it.  Just when I was convinced to go with the DC.

[GlennL]

On 3/31/2023 at 11:11 AM, bleedinblue said:

Dang it.  Just when I was convinced to go with the DC.

I guess one question is...have more individuals suffered "Cut Injuries" VS "Respiratory Damage" from woodworking???

But then again...an injured finger can heal...damaged lungs DON'T heal!!!!!!!

[legenddc]

On 3/31/2023 at 11:11 AM, bleedinblue said:

Facts.  On the other hand, the way this career has been going...how many fingers would it take to get a full medical retirement?  

Yeah I understand that. Was thinking if you couldn't work or lost overtime it might be harder to afford the next tool.

I get wanting better dust collection too. My list of tools purchases and upgrades is quite extensive.

[BillyJack]

On 3/31/2023 at 10:21 AM, GlennL said:

I guess one question is...have more individuals suffered "Cut Injuries" VS "Respiratory Damage" from woodworking???

But then again...an injured finger can heal...damaged lungs DON'T heal!!!!!!!

I’ve only heard of one lung problem in 37 years working in professional wood shops. His brothers who I worked at the shop with said his brother work in a vacumn clean of dust in his cabinet shop and asked for lung problems. Other than the the Davis brother , I have never heard of lung problem associated with the shop, I worked in the shop all this years and COPD , a light case from 35 years of smoking. 
 

Compared to saw injuries.. All  my years 10 table saw injuries to one lung injury..

 

Shops run DC to keep the  tools cleaned so you can work.

 

Its your shop, do what you want..

[Tpt life]

Lung problems that are due to materials, are largely dependent on the shape of the fibers, and whether or not they dissolve easily. There may be fungal concerns or chemical irritants, but you won’t have issue like with asbestos, because wood dissolves easily and does not typically exist in the long narrow fibers that get caught in the lungs. That is not an endorsement to ignore the dust, but is a caution to not just bow to fear mongering. I find myself wearing a respirator more, for lots of dusty tasks, but I find myself having asthmatic fits around certain dusts, even those not connected with woodworking. 

[BillyJack]

On 3/31/2023 at 11:39 AM, Tpt life said:

Lung problems that are due to materials, are largely dependent on the shape of the fibers, and whether or not they dissolve easily. There may be fungal concerns or chemical irritants, but you won’t have issue like with asbestos, because wood dissolves easily and does not typically exist in the long narrow fibers that get caught in the lungs. That is not an endorsement to ignore the dust, but is a caution to not just bow to fear mongering. I find myself wearing a respirator more, for lots of dusty tasks, but I find myself having asthmatic fits around certain dusts, even those not connected with woodworking. 

If you look in many hobby shops you won’t even find a dust mask..

[BillyJack]

When I worked  at Blystone cabinets in Buckner, Missouri , Mike Blystone told Rick Yates after I stopped working there, that I had to be an idiot to have gotten my hand in the table saw. 2 years later Rick told me Mike got his hand in the table saw. Wonder what his comments are now?

[Chestnut]

My initial comment was just one vs the other. If you boil it down to just safety it's hard. My main question is can dust leave your shop and easily enter the rest of the house? If you have a lot of dust accumulating on furniture the color of the wood you work DC might help prevent lung issues of more than just you.

If the dust can't leave the shop, IE it's sealed someway from the rest of the house the TS might make better safety sense. If you want disability from work there is always bypass mode on the saw stop.

[BillyJack]

Bottom line is you have to chose your own path to follow.  I’ve worked in too many shops, working with too many cabinet makers , who have work for for other shops.  This information travels from shop to shop, state to state. 
 

I’ve been seriously hurt, so I guess I look at it much more serious than many. 

[bleedinblue]

On 4/3/2023 at 9:42 AM, Chestnut said:

My initial comment was just one vs the other. If you boil it down to just safety it's hard. My main question is can dust leave your shop and easily enter the rest of the house? If you have a lot of dust accumulating on furniture the color of the wood you work DC might help prevent lung issues of more than just you.

If the dust can't leave the shop, IE it's sealed someway from the rest of the house the TS might make better safety sense. If you want disability from work there is always bypass mode on the saw stop.

Truthfully, dust seems to stay in the shop pretty well.  I cant even explain how so.  My furnace is literally a few studs and a single sheet of drywall away from the heart of the shop, and my furnace filter doesn't even pick up enough dust to be noticeable.

I'm probably going to have to go with a Sawstop.  Probably order before the end of the month to get the free mobile base or over arm collector.

 

[Mark J]

I'll just throw out this, the absolute best time to buy a mobile base is right before you set the saw down for the first time.  It won't get easier to do later.

And if the wife can be persuaded, maybe you can get the overhead dust arm, too.