Von Posted August 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2023 One thing I've figured out is that each night, everything moves a little bit, so there is a lesson to be learned in getting this done in one day. Started out the day assessing the situation, and found some vertical gaps, e.g. So I made some corner cauls... And quickly figured out they needed some sandpaper on the back to keep them from sliding around. Fortunately I had some stick-on sandpaper I bought for who knows what reason... Queue sanding sequence, followed by glue up... We'll see what I've got tomorrow. Thanks again for everyone's advice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted August 24, 2023 Report Share Posted August 24, 2023 It shouldn’t be moving.. Are you sure your saw is 90? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Posted August 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2023 I have no doubt it is moving. This piece of edging has corkscrewed about 20 degrees down its length since I cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted August 24, 2023 Report Share Posted August 24, 2023 Twisting isn’t unusual depending on the species.. I though you was talking about expansion/ contraction.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimayo Posted August 25, 2023 Report Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 8/19/2023 at 8:28 AM, BillyJack said: It does not… lol How does that help? I assumed you would know. How does it not help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted August 25, 2023 Report Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 8/25/2023 at 10:36 AM, Wimayo said: I assumed you would know. How does it not help? How does scoring the wood help? Actually not worth arguing. If you want to do it that way, by all means do it that way.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tpt life Posted August 25, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 25, 2023 Scoring with a knife, for cross grain cuts especially, can limit tear out. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post treeslayer Posted August 25, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 25, 2023 I always use a marking knife on cuts like that, gives me a more precise location for the cut, never thought I needed a marking knife until I got one now I use it all the time 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted August 25, 2023 Report Share Posted August 25, 2023 We don’t use one in the shops…For trimming a top, No point.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted August 25, 2023 Report Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 8/25/2023 at 11:49 AM, Tpt life said: Scoring with a knife, for cross grain cuts especially, can limit tear out. You ean limit tear out with the correct blade.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted August 25, 2023 Report Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 8/19/2023 at 8:28 AM, BillyJack said: It does not… lol How does that help? Still not answered.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted August 25, 2023 Report Share Posted August 25, 2023 #1… on trimming a top, you only see one side. The back side doesn’t matter unless your using a wore construction bade. #2…If you can’t see a pencil line, you sure can’t see a score line.. #3… like I said, practice makes perfect.I expect a woodworker in the shop to be able to wrap 6 average tops an hour. Give or take if he/she has enough clamps.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post treeslayer Posted August 25, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 25, 2023 1 hour ago, BillyJack said: If you can’t see a pencil line, you sure can’t see a score line.. i can see a pencil line and a score line, if i'm doing precise cuts a marking knife/wheel marking gauge is a much finer way of marking a cut a pencil is to wide of a mark most times when making quality pieces IMO, on the stuff i make the back side is just as important as the front side, i'm not ever going to wrap 6 tops an hour, thats for production shops 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted August 25, 2023 Report Share Posted August 25, 2023 Like I said earlier… Your shop , you can do what you like… I did thousands of tops per year and a pencil worked just fine. Remember “practice”…key word.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted August 25, 2023 Report Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 8/25/2023 at 12:07 PM, treeslayer said: I always use a marking knife on cuts like that, gives me a more precise location for the cut, never thought I needed a marking knife until I got one now I use it all the time Precise doesn’t mean diddly if you cut the line off.. Only difference between a production shop and hobby shop is getting payed and time is money.. Ive been trained to be fast and accurate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post treeslayer Posted August 25, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 25, 2023 1 hour ago, BillyJack said: Like I said earlier… Your shop , you can do what you like… I did thousands of tops per year and a pencil worked just fine. Remember “practice”…key word.. I’ll try to remember “practice “ good advice, wish I could have had those words of wisdom over 50 years ago when I started woodworking, I guess I’ll just have to keep on doing as I like and what works best for me 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Wimayo Posted August 26, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 26, 2023 Most of the time I use a pencil. Occasionally, when I need to be particularly accurate as when cutting mitered corners using moldings, I use a knife. The score will register more closely and accuratley to the reference surface and the score will be finer than a pencil line. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted August 26, 2023 Report Share Posted August 26, 2023 On 8/25/2023 at 2:46 PM, BillyJack said: Like I said earlier… Your shop , you can do what you like… Key Words! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlyoak Posted August 26, 2023 Report Share Posted August 26, 2023 On 8/25/2023 at 4:53 PM, treeslayer said: wish I could have had those words of wisdom over 50 years ago when I started woodworking For certain you have my respect. And I put high value on your words! You cant buy for any price 50 years of experience. Thanks for your contributions! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Posted August 26, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2023 Great discussion all. I claim no great wisdom, but my thinking is there is a lot of personal preference in woodworking and agree, to each their own way. More on the miter joints later today as I have shop time planned this morning. Spoiler alert, I took a peak yesterday and am not happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted August 26, 2023 Report Share Posted August 26, 2023 As fine a line as I need.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted August 26, 2023 Report Share Posted August 26, 2023 On 8/26/2023 at 7:53 AM, Von said: Great discussion all. I claim no great wisdom, but my thinking is there is a lot of personal preference in woodworking and agree, to each their own way. More on the miter joints later today as I have shop time planned this morning. Spoiler alert, I took a peak yesterday and am not happy. Von it takes time. I walked into a commercial shop in 1983. I was lucky, I was Ronnie’s apprentice for two years. Everyday, side by side on the commercial side of the shop. That training is better than any book, YouTube or internet discussion you will get. Practice, practice, practice..The more you want to learn and do, the less you have to think about it to do it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Von Posted August 26, 2023 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted August 26, 2023 So when I first looked at my glued up joints, I was pretty dejected... Starting with front right... Back right Back left (the chip in the plywood is pre-glueup) and front left... Clearly none of those are very pretty. Thinking about it I made (at least) two big mistakes: 1) I didn't constrain the joints vertically during glue up, and despite biscuits ~6" away, they managed to shift vertically up to ~1/16" 2) I did something that resulted in some of the pieces being slightly too long. I think I didn't apply as much clamping pressure during dry fitting as during glue up. Anyway, nothing to do besides try to clean things up. I spent about 2 1/2 hours planing, rasping, and sanding. I did have one "Oh, sh..." moment when I tore out a chunk... Fortunately, after a few minutes on hands and knees, I found the chunk. After gluing and sanding, it turned out OK... In the end, I had a few gaps on the very inside of the corners, but some sawdust and glue filled the gaps. I'm happy with the final results, below in the same order. Thank you all for your help through this process. Far from perfect, but a big improvement over my last such effort. I've started finishing and should finish this project up in the next couple of days and will post the results. Front right (probably the best)... Back right (a little rough as it was the first one I tackled and the squeeze out did not want to go easily)... Back left (good amount of sawdust filler at play on both the edging and plywood).... And front left, which got misaligned somehow. If I were braver, I would plane down the front some to bring the 45 into alignment, but after my tear out, I was leery. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Ragatz Posted August 28, 2023 Report Share Posted August 28, 2023 I'm fortunate that I can still see a marking knife line as well as a pencil line (most of the time). Given that, why would I ever choose to use a pencil instead of a marking knife? the pencil line is always going to be wider and so, less precise than the knife line, as a visual guide for my cutting/milling the knife line gives me a physical indexing point if I need it when I'm working with a hand saw or a chisel the knife line does help with tear-out, even if you're using the "right blade" I don't need to sharpen my marking knives nearly as often as I need to sharpen my pencils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted August 28, 2023 Report Share Posted August 28, 2023 I use a pencil or ballpoint pen to lay out cuts that will be made on a machine, because the precision is actually controlled by a fence or stop, not me guiding the work to a line. For hand tool joinery, though, its a marking knife, all the way. Scale matters, as well. Traditional carpenters in Japan hand cut amazingly precise joints for temple construction, marked with their version of a dip pen and chalk line. But for joints at furniture scale joinery, they switch to knife lines, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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