Seeking advice on mitered edging of table top

[Von]

I've reached a stage in my shop cabinet/storage thing where I'm not confident in my next step and appreciate any advice (including "you're overthinking it").

I've got my ~2'x4' top, which is doubled plywood, 1.5" thick, and I want to add edging to cover the plywood edge (1.5" tall to match thickness, 3/4" wide) all the way around, 45 degree mitered at the corners. I've never been comfortable in any process I've found to cut the edging pieces to length. Anyone willing to share what approach works well for them?

I plan to add some biscuits for vertical alignment if it matters. TIA.

 

[BillyJack]

When I edge counter tops with wood,  I cut the inside 45 about a 32nd larger on the inside and you barely want to see just a hair of throat extra length. This gives you tight corners.. I often times will cut inside 45’s at 44.5 inside and outside  at 45.5

 

I do a similar technique when crowning cabinets. 
 

How much  do you trust your miter saw?

[Von]

On 8/18/2023 at 9:57 AM, BillyJack said:

When I edge counter tops with wood,  I cut the inside 45 about a 32nd larger on the inside and you barely want to see just a hair of throat extra length. This gives you tight corners.. I often times will cut inside 45’s at 44.5 inside and outside  at 45.5

I do a similar technique when crowning cabinets. 

How much  do you trust your miter saw?

To make sure I'm following inside versus outside. In my terminology, on a tabletop, I have 4 outside corners and no inside corners. So I think your suggestion is to cut them all a slightly bigger than 45, which will let me get a tight fit when I clamp them up and push them closed?

I believe I can get my miter saw dialed in as precise as I need it if I take my time.

Thanks!

[BillyJack]

To be fair….There are occasions where a sliding or regular miter saw just can’t be set. I ran into this on a  Dewalt 708 where  the two fences would line up creating two different joints. Rather than  grind   on it to correct it, I got another saw.

 

Other than those rare occasions, with a little effort a miter saw can be set up just as accurate as a table saw..

[BillyJack]

Your making me awful jealous with those BORA saw horses

[wtnhighlander]

Its never the angle that gives ne trouble, its the length. Practice at shaving tiny amounts with whatever tool you use really helps. Otherwise, its "too long, too long, too long .... dangit, too short".

[Wimayo]

Also, it helps to mark your cut with a knife rather than a pencil. Xacto works well if you don't have a marking knife.

[Von]

On 8/18/2023 at 6:54 PM, wtnhighlander said:

Its never the angle that gives ne trouble, its the length. Practice at shaving tiny amounts with whatever tool you use really helps. Otherwise, its "too long, too long, too long .... dangit, too short".

Yes! Well put.

[G Ragatz]

My two cents:

1. Make sure your plywood top is really, really square to start - otherwise. things get wonky in a hurry.
2. Carefully measure and cut one side to start. Cut a little long, per @wtnhighlander and nibble at it with the miter saw or (my preference) a block plane until the inside corner is right on.
3. Clamp that piece in place and then work your way around the table top, one piece at a time, butting the new piece against the previous one, measure and cut a little long. Repeat.

I've heard before of cutting the miter angles a little over/under as @BillyJack suggests to make sure the corners are tight, but I've never tried that myself.

If you really want to make sure those corners don't open up, you might consider a mitered half-lap instead of a plain miter.

[BillyJack]

Your give and takes should be on the 4th piece. Even if we think it# square it’s often a touch longer on one edge. Start there and work down…

[curlyoak]

The plywood edge should be addressed first. All 4 edges should be a perfect 90 all edges or you might have gaps to fill. Either run it through the table saw if possible or use a straight cutter on a router. Mitred corners look nice but an easier corner would be butt joints. Or a rabbited corner has a nice look. Sometimes the easier joint ends up more elegant than a butchered more difficult joint. Choose accordingly. Either way ease the corners and save your hips and minimize the cussing.

On 8/18/2023 at 6:54 PM, wtnhighlander said:

Its never the angle that gives ne trouble, its the length. Practice at shaving tiny amounts with whatever tool you use really helps. Otherwise, its "too long, too long, too long .... dangit, too short".

Well put! "I cut it twice and it is still too short"...

[Von]

All - thank you for the suggestions. You've got me thinking through a process. I'll update this thread with my success or failure.

BTW, on the slightly-off-of-45-degrees suggestion @BillyJack mentioned, this tickled my memory and the Foureyes Furniture guys did a video on this trick with some graphics and details.

[BillyJack]

On 8/18/2023 at 6:11 PM, Wimayo said:

Also, it helps to mark your cut with a knife rather than a pencil. Xacto works well if you don't have a marking knife.

It does not… lol

 

How does that help?

[BillyJack]

On 8/19/2023 at 7:13 AM, Von said:

All - thank you for the suggestions. You've got me thinking through a process. I'll update this thread with my success or failure.

BTW, on the slightly-off-of-45-degrees suggestion @BillyJack mentioned, this tickled my memory and the Foureyes Furniture guys did a video on this trick with some graphics and details.

Edging counter tops is pretty easy once you get the hang of it, but I did it all the time. During the 90’s, during the  the solid surface monopoly, almost all counter tops  tops got wood edge.

 

If your having trouble holding on to the longer section to get a second mark, just use a bar clamp to hold it firmly while you go to the other end to mark it

[Von]

A quick plug for supporting Marc (aka the Wood Whisperer) on Patreon. Every Friday he takes questions and answers them sometime over the weekend. I find it incredibly valuable. It's not a back-and-forth, so you have to get your question clear. And his responses are going to be reasonably concise. But still, it's among the best money I spend every month for those quick sanity checks, or am I being an idiot questions (which he's very good at answering "yes" to very nicely btw).

I put my mitered edging question to him as well, and I hope he won't mind me sharing his response for context:

Quote

I usually go piece by piece and work my way around, clockwise or counter clockwise. In theory, you should be able to cut the long sides together and then cut the short sides together using the same settings for each. But in reality, the thing you're wrapping my not actually be perfectly square and the lengths could be ever so slightly off. So I start with one edge, attach, then move to the adjacent edge.

 

[BillyJack]

You’ll always make a circle. I prefer to finish my cut to the right , so I always go to my  right, but most guys in the shop are right handed. I had one guy that was left handed and I let him do it whatever was easiest for him. If you were doing laminate, you would “pigtail”

 

Trimming is really easy one you know the give and takes..

[Ronn W]

I could suggest and shooting board for fine tunig the miters, A spacer can be use to change the angel just a smidge.

[BillyJack]

So how’s it coming along?

[Von]

 

On 8/21/2023 at 10:43 AM, BillyJack said:

So how’s it coming along?

Thanks for asking. My sister got into town Saturday, so I've been distracted but I got some shop time this morning.

On 8/20/2023 at 5:17 PM, Ronn W said:

I could suggest and shooting board for fine tunig the miters, A spacer can be use to change the angel just a smidge.

I came to the conclusion of a shooting board as well. The only problem is I didn't have a shooting board, so I made one. The blue tape is shimming I applied as needed (and ended up with a fair amount more than shown). My big mistake is the base board was 1/4" which wasn't as stable as I would have liked. Definitely 3/4" next time. My biggest challenge wasn't getting the miter right, it was getting the plane square vertically (probably because of the 1/4" base).

Back to the edging, I started off trying to add one piece at a time and fine tune each corner as I went along and I think that was a mistake. Without all the pieces in place and under tension from the other pieces, they have too much freedom to move. So I changed plans, and started by cutting the remaining pieces a little long and clamping everything in place.

Then I started working corner by corner, shooting whichever piece seemed longest or most our of the right angle. I ran out of time, but here is where I'm at:

This one isn't square in some way, in that the top is open (the chip/tearout is unrelated).

This one is looking good. I think if I shave a little off of the piece running vertically, the gap between the horizontal piece and the top will close up nicely.

This one looks worse in the photo than I remember. I think one piece is out of vertical alignment causing a shadow.

This one has me worried in that the piece running vertically in the photo looks like I overshot my trimming and it's too short. I'll trim the piece running horizontally and hope.

 

[BillyJack]

Practice make perfect….

[Ronn W]

Your on the right track.  Check that our plane base is square to the side of the plane and put most of the pressure down on the shooting board as you make a pass.  Be sure to wax the base of the shooting board so plane sides easily.

[Von]

On 8/22/2023 at 8:20 PM, Ronn W said:

Your on the right track.  Check that our plane base is square to the side of the plane and put most of the pressure down on the shooting board as you make a pass.  Be sure to wax the base of the shooting board so plane sides easily.

Thanks. I had a little time today and did spend most of it tuning the shooting board. I figured out it needed more shimming to get it working square:

I also figured out that pencil markup was useful to gauge high spots and progress, just like with sanding. The shavings are so fine, it's hard for me to tell what the plane is doing otherwise.

More tomorrow.

[Coop]

Von, I’ve found that working on one side at a time helps. I cut two pieces about 6” long, the same dimensions as your boarder/rail pieces and miter one end on each piece to be a right side and the other a left side and use these instead of the larger actual pieces. Align your first rail at one end with the corresponding 6” piece and tape both of those to your top. Go to the other end of the rail and use the other 6” piece to scribe a mark on your rail. Leaving your first 6” piece taped to the top as a reference stop, remove your rail and trim it down gradually until you are happy with the joint it forms with the second 6” piece, then tape your rail to the top and continue around the top, using only the second 6” piece. I hope all of this makes sense! 

[Von]

Most of today was taken up by a drive down to French Lick (yes, real name of the town) for some good German food, so only had about an hour in the shop which I used to cut slots for biscuits in the edging, which seemed like a good thing to do before I got too much further along.

I have the day free tomorrow except for dog walking, so it gets glued up one way or another.

[Tpt life]

Larry Bird was from that area.