Dust control curiosity

[collinb]

Had an interesting chat at a store last week.  The rep in the shop said that a number woodworkers come in with O2 tanks and such. Lots of lung problems (apparently) from woodworking. So I was wondering how much lung protection is used out there. 

Something to consider: Those medical-style dust masks only filter larger pieces and are generally intended for droplet-born material.  Because they don't fit tight they're not going to protect much at all from the finer material.

[drzaius]

I've never yet used a paper mask that had a good seal all around, so I don't use them any more. The rubber masks with HEPA cartridges do a much better job & you can fit them with organic vapor cartridges when finishing.

[minorhero]

Paper masks are more or less useless. When in a small space  (say a 2 car garage ) it doesn't take long to kick up a good cloud of fines. It is pretty essential to wear a respirator at that point. I am planning on adding significant dust control in the future months but I doubt I will ever get rid of my respirator.  

[Chestnut]

I'm in the market for a DC but it will always be about pickup of the bulk material. I'll probably always wear a respirator. I don't know if the 3 years I've been working has had an effect but i haven't been the most diligent on the respirator. I do wear it 100% of the time while sanding and milling.

[Rex Edgar]

I am getting better as far as personal health and the general environment in the shop, but do not possess the necessary discipline to hook everything up every time. I use a converted two car garage with ceiling fans and a new CT and a wall mounted Rockler supplied 4" DC. I have it hooked to a metal (plastic will implode) trash can with a plastic lid with one 4' hose in and one out. The 4"hose stays mostly on the table saw, but easily shifted to the bench top planer. I have a respirator that I do try to use if I am sanding something on the lathe. Are others pretty religious in using proper procedures or are there some with sloppy habits as well? The CT has impressed me though.

[wtnhighlander]

I'm pretty lax about dust control. My garage shop has the door open more often than not. I do use a small DC on my table saw, and shop vac on my benchtop bandsaw and sanders. Another vac on the ROS. Nothing on the lathe, but I rarely use it. Milling is done outside.

[Tpt life]

I don't know a single 80 year old cabinet maker on oxygen (I know several lifer cabinet shop guys) that didn't smoke for a great portion of their life. This makes the rationale behind the question a little cloudy. The question is a good one though. 

[rodger.]

I have a p100 filter on my respirator, and run HEPA on two vacs.  My central DC has 1 micron.  I blow out my shop regularly, clean it religiously, and run an 800 CFM air cleaner after every session.

Any power tool without direct DC is used outdoors (usually circ saw).

[pkinneb]

I have a central dust collection system as well as two air filters and a CT26 for small power tools. I also have a respirator but hate wearing it so i rarely do. I to would be curious to know how many non smoking hobbyist woodworkers have these issues.

 

[Eric.]

I'm pretty bad about wearing my respirator, but up until a couple years ago I was a smoker, so like Carus said, kind of pointless to worry about dust.  But now things are different and I need to give it more of an effort.  I sealed the deal about a week ago when I gave myself a sinus infection by sanding without the respirator.  I'm committing to wearing it a lot more from now on...even though I hate it.

Unless you have a Bill Pentz approved dust collection system (unlikely) that is actually CORRECTLY designed and installed (even more unlikely) then you can't rely on your DC and/or air cleaners to protect you...you MUST wear a respirator.  What level of risk you decide to assume is a personal decision, but I don't think there's any doubt that a lifetime of breathing fine dust can and will have an effect on you at some point.

But at your age Collin, I'd be more worried about that strung up table saw mutilating you in your sleep than some fine dust particulates.   It takes years - decades - of regular exposure to kill someone...think of dust like you do Big Macs.  You can probably survive a few per year, but a few per week will catch up with you eventually.

[Cliff]

I'm finally at the point where I can collect off of every tool pretty decently. And I still wear the mask. I want a better mask though. I just feel like mine could be better. I still leave the large garage door open almost always and half the time I'm actually outside. With the wind the way it is in IL sometimes if I am running the 735, I may take the mask off since the dust collector + wind is probably taking care of business. Unless it's blowing in my face of course. Or there is no wind at all. 

[..Kev]

Also, contrary to what some here believe, you do not get a good seal on the mask with facial hair.  As someone who fit tests people as a part of my job, I can assure you that the once with facial hair fail the fit test EVERY time.

[rodger.]

26 minutes ago, TIODS said:

Also, contrary to what some here believe, you do not get a good seal on the mask with facial hair.  As someone who fit tests people as a part of my job, I can assure you that the once with facial hair fail the fit test EVERY time.

What about the guys with sleeve tattoos?  How do they fair?

[ChrisG-Canada]

@TIODS is right about facial hair. You need a tight seal against your skin to ensure all air passes through the filter. 

I owned a company (sold it in 2014) that performed asbestos abatement (safe removal) so please trust me that I know something about dangerous dust and protecting people.  It's the very finest dust particles that are the most dangerous - you need real HEPA filter that captures at least 99.97% of particles 0.3 micron and larger.  In my opinion any other filter is a waste of money because it is basically useless.

My employees used the North series of respirators with P100 HEPA filters and I use the half-face version of that same respirator in my shop - even with my Oneida V-3000, Festool CT-26 and HEPA air filter/cleaner.  My health isn't worth risking - especially when excellent protection (in the form of a respirator) is so simple.

[Gixxerjoe04]

I basically clicked them all haha.  I have a full face mask, got a half face and paper ones as well, try to wear them but don't wear them all the time every time but have gotten better.  Got a dc and shop vac I try to use every time I can, my miter saw and lathe are the two things that make a lot of dust and I don't have anything on them which sucks.  I've got two makeshift air filters made from box fans and filters, probably not as good as units you can buy but they do work.  The paper masks def aren't the best but they're better than nothing.

[..Kev]

The paper masks are not worth the paper they're made from!  They may give you a warm fuzzy feeling that you're being protected but, your not.  

Unfortunately, the poll does not account for what should (in a perfect world) be in our shops.  Many factors contribute to not having a good amount of dust collections in our shops.  Money, space, desire, and education to name a few..

[bleedinblue]

2 hours ago, TIODS said:

Also, contrary to what some here believe, you do not get a good seal on the mask with facial hair.  As someone who fit tests people as a part of my job, I can assure you that the once with facial hair fail the fit test EVERY time.

You ever screw with people during those fit tests?  I'm pretty sure our guy does.  "Do air squats while talking and turning your head from side to side for 90 straight seconds."

[..Kev]

1 minute ago, bleedinblue said:

You ever screw with people during those fit tests?  I'm pretty sure our guy does.  "Do air squats while talking and turning your head from side to side for 90 straight seconds."

After a few hundred of them, you get bored..  The machine does all the work..  I usually get them set up and find something to do while the test runs.  Frankly, you can't cheat the system with a proper machine.

[bleedinblue]

Ha.  Luckily I shouldn't have to do another, but I take trainees for theirs a few times a year and laugh at them.

[..Kev]

I've been doing it long enough (26 years) to know that when I take my fit test each year, I want good accurate results!

[Chestnut]

Seems there is a lot of knowledge weighing in here. My question is simple, how do i know when to replace my P100 filters? I wear the respirator a lot and for house remodeling as well as woodworking.

[Guest]

I am kind of lax about it too.  I use my festool CT vac for sanding and for the blade guard collector on my tablesaw (in conjuction with a 4" port under the blade that goes to my RIkon). It does a great job with the fines.  I almost never wear a dust mask and as long as the CT is hooked up I don't sense any irritation.   

For large chips I have a Rikon DC that I move from machine to machine.  it is kind of a PITA

I am doing a shop reorg as we speak.   I am moving my jointer and planer and will set them up on a dedicated DC (no pillowcases or twine  ).  

I'd like to put a CT port on my bandsaw close to the blade.  The CT does a great job collecting the fines as long as it is close to the blade.    then I will rig up a @Pug style swing arm to easily switch my CT hose from the bandsaw blade to the table saw blade  

Lastly I will direct vent my DC at some point.   when I do all of that my DC will be as good as I need it to be.  

Also, I second Carus' notion that these guys were possibly long time smokers.  My dad and his buddies are all union construction guys (mostly pipefitters and boilermakers).  Most are chain smokers and/or alcoholics yet, when not blaming Obama, they blame all their chronic lung and joint problems on "the steel mills and coke plants"    A grain of salt is always needed   

 

 

[drzaius]

1 hour ago, Chestnut said:

Seems there is a lot of knowledge weighing in here. My question is simple, how do i know when to replace my P100 filters? I wear the respirator a lot and for house remodeling as well as woodworking.

After every couple of hours use I take mine off & blow backwards through them by mouth, not with compressed air (avoiding the cloud of dust that is expelled) & then put them back on. I keep using them until they get uncomfortably hard to suck air through. They last many, many hours. Probably at least a hundred.

[ChrisG-Canada]

1 hour ago, Chestnut said:

Seems there is a lot of knowledge weighing in here. My question is simple, how do i know when to replace my P100 filters? I wear the respirator a lot and for house remodeling as well as woodworking.

They really only need to be replaced when they become hard to breathe through. The more they get used, they actually become MORE efficient at removing particles from the air.

As @drzaius said, they will like last a long time. 

[Chestnut]

17 minutes ago, drzaius said:

After every couple of hours use I take mine off & blow backwards through them by mouth, not with compressed air (avoiding the cloud of dust that is expelled) & then put them back on. I keep using them until they get uncomfortably hard to suck air through. They last many, many hours. Probably at least a hundred.

 

5 minutes ago, ChrisG-Canada said:

They really only need to be replaced when they become hard to breathe through. The more they get used, they actually become MORE efficient at removing particles from the air.

As @drzaius said, they will like last a long time. 

Thanks guys makes me feel ok knowing i ran a pair for probably a year. I noticed i was heavy mouth breathing a lot more and decided that was the indicator that it was time. I just didn't know if there was some industry standard that i obviously don't know working a desk job.