Side Table: Exercise in Veneering

[davewyo]

8 hours ago, wnaziri said:

  It looks like my next purchase will be a nice scroll saw.  Suggestions?

I'm not sure how nice you want to go but I got a Delta scroll saw and a foot pedal which I'm pretty happy with. There are much nicer scroll saws out there but this one does everything I need it to at a fairly reasonable price. Blade changes, tension adjustment, and speed adjustment are easy and not fiddly. Table angle adjustments are similarly easy.

The guard is a bit funky to adjust into place but it's not a big deal. I'm not real sure what that guard's function is supposed to be. I guess it would stop your work piece from going up and down very far if you lost control and let go.

[wnaziri]

I have made some progress since the last post and have learned quite a bit.  The two new additions to my shop have been Vacupress and the DeWalt scroll saw.

I did a few cuts with the scroll and saw and moved on to my project.  Here is my first assembled veneer for the table:

As you can see, I ended up using some Mapa burl with a 4-way match.  This will be the show face of the assembled veneer.

Into the bag and onto my newly made platten that is 2'x4'.  I used 2 part Unibond 800 glue. Let it sit overnight.  Had to do lots of planing / sanding to flatten the surface.  This was necessary because the walnut veneer was much thicker than the other veneers.  Here is the end product as of today.

I did a wash coat of dewaxed blond shellac and lacquer spray for the partially completed finish.

I think this table is presentable and will give it to my son but I started making another top today.  I am not satisfied with this one.  I made two major errors with my first vacuum press veneering:

1.  Using different thickness veneers is BAD idea.  In attempt to flatted and smooth the top, I used a combination of planing and sanding.  This resulted in sanding through veneer in 3 spots.  Needless to say, I was not happy but then I consoled myself by knowing this was my first attempt at a veneering with a vacuum press.

2.  I used a brush to apply the glue but in retrospect, I now know that the glue was not even across the surface of the substrate (Baltic Birch), thus creating an uneven surface.  I will be sure to use a roller next time and be certain to apply the glue as a thinner, more even layer.

I will post pics of the table with the new top when I have it done.

Thanks for all the wonderful compliments, suggestions, and support.

[Chet]

Man, Wade that came out fantastic.  Thats going to be the best piece of furniture in the frat house.

[bradpotts]

Love it. Also, thank you for pointing out your mistakes so we don't make the same.

[wtnhighlander]

Wade, if you say another word about how disappointed you are with that table top, I'm going to have to come down there and slap you. That is gorgeous!

Good "lessons learned" bit at the end, thanks for sharing those.

[Alan G]

That came out great! Nice work!!

Did you put a veneer on the bottom also? 

If so how do you manage getting all of that into the veneer bag without shifting?

[drzaius]

Looks great. And again, thanks for sharing the snags & mistakes. Helps the rest of us learn.

[wnaziri]

1 hour ago, Alan G said:

Did you put a veneer on the bottom also? 

If so how do you manage getting all of that into the veneer bag without shifting?

 Thanks Alan.  I did apply a backer veneer.

I am new with the Vacupress but putting the veneer sandwich in the bag was very easy and did not cause any shifting.  It may have to do with the kind of glue that I used.  By the way, I am using breather mesh on top of the bundle and it works like a charm.  

[Alan G]

Nice! Good to hear that it all worked out well. It looks great! Makes me want to try veneering sooner than later. 

Thanks for all of the great info so far.

[wnaziri]

Well, I finally got around to making the second top for the table.  It turned out much better with very few flaws.  To keep the thickness of all the veneers consistent, I used Makore veneer that I had on hand instead of the walnut.  It is sprayed with lacquer and I just have to do the magic with steel wool and wax and it shall be done.

[treeslayer]

beautiful work Wade, make him some coasters for the fine craft beers that will be on it soon.

[Mick S]

Beautiful, Wade! I've found that my drum sander is invaluable for veneer work. I've sanded glued up veneers down to .03" at 120 grit. Highly recommend one to go with your new toys!

[wdwerker]

Wow !  Beautiful work !

Definitely sign it and date it. I would list the woods and where they are in the design too.

[Coop]

Micks, I've never done veneers but do own a ds. I would have thought that running the various grain directions thru a ds would be unforgiving?

[Mick S]

8 minutes ago, K Cooper said:

Micks, I've never done veneers but do own a ds. I would have thought that running the various grain directions thru a ds would be unforgiving?

Not really. Light passes and reverse the panel on every pass. The veneers I've used have all been shop cut veneers. I have not tried doing commercial veneers. Some of those are only .025" to begin with.

Some of the students at school use a backer board on veneers when using the drum sander. I haven't found it to be necessary.

[shaneymack]

Wel, I finally got around to making the second top for the table.  It turned much better with very few flaws.  To keep the thickness of all the veneers consistent, I used Makore veneer that I had on hand instead of the walnut.  It is sprayed with lacquer and I just have to do the magic with steel wool and wax and it shall be done.

Looks amazing, Wade ! Can you share a little info on the veneer press you got? Are you happy with it ?

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

[wnaziri]

38 minutes ago, micks said:

Beautiful, Wade! I've found that my drum sander is invaluable for veneer work. I've sanded glued up veneers down to .03" at 120 grit. Highly recommend one to go with your new toys!

When I did the first table top, it did not take much to sand right through the veneer using my Festool ROS.  

All my veneers are commercial, raw wood veneer, which as mentioned, are pretty thin.  

I actual have a General drum sander, which I did not use for this project.  The General DS hass two drums and I have 80 and 120 grit on the successive drums.  After I did the work on the second table top, I was afraid I would sand right through the veneer in one pass.  As I get better with this veneering stuff, I will likely use the DS in the future.l

[wnaziri]

7 minutes ago, shaneymack said:

Looks amazing, Wade ! Can you share a little info on the veneer press you got? Are you happy with ?

@shaneymack I am really loving the veneer press.  It is the easiest thing to use.  

I bought the heavy duty 2' x 4' veneering bag from Joe Woodworker; made a 3/4" MDF platten that I covered with Formica.  I usually place the breather mesh on top of the project.  I have been using Unibond 800 two part glue.  I do my veneer pressing at the end of the day where I put the project in the bag, turn on the press and leave it overnight.  The press has been awesome.  It is simple and gets to full vacuum pressure in less than 30 seconds.  I guess it would take longer if I had a bigger bag.  This press creates 1750 PSI pressure.  

Word of advice: don't spend lots of money on the super duper Vacupress model.  I talked to folks at Vacupress and they informed that ALL models create the same amount pressure, 1750 PSI.  The only difference between the models is the speed with which the vacuums reach 1750 PSI.  

I am hoping to do more veneer projects this year.

[shaneymack]

@shaneymack I am really loving the veneer press.  It is the easiest thing to use.  

I bought the heavy duty 2' x 4' veneering bag from Joe Woodworker; made a 3/4" MDF platten that I covered with Formica.  I usually place the breather mesh on top of the project.  I have been using Unibond 800 two part glue.  I do my veneer pressing at the end of the day where I put the project in the bag, turn on the press and leave it overnight.  The press has been awesome.  It is simple and gets to full vacuum pressure in less than 30 seconds.  I guess it would take longer if I had a bigger bag.  This press creates 1750 PSI pressure.  

Word of advice: don't spend lots of money on the super duper Vacupress model.  I talked to folks at Vacupress and they informed that ALL models create the same amount pressure, 1750 PSI.  The only difference between the models is the speed with which the vacuums reach 1750 PSI.  

I am hoping to do more veneer projects this year.

Good info. Thanks, Wade. Which model did you get? I spoke to the vacupress people and they did tell me the same thing. It seemed to me that the speed at which it reached full vacuum was important. I will call them again and ask a few questions before I actually pull the trigger.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

[wdwerker]

I added a vacuum reservoir tank to my vacuum setup. A couple valves a tee and a 10 ft piece of 4" PVC with 2 Schedule 40 caps & 1 barbed fitting. The pump pulls the tank empty and then when you open the valve to the vacuum press there is plenty of pull to empty the bag down fast. When I am using my vacuum clamping jigs it grabs faster if the seal isn't perfect at first.

You can make your tank any length you want. Mine fit under the outfeed table so why cut the pipe shorter ?

[wnaziri]

6 minutes ago, shaneymack said:

Good info. Thanks, Wade. Which model did you get? I spoke to the vacupress people and they did tell me the same thing. It seemed to me that the speed at which it reached full vacuum was important. I will call them again and ask a few questions before I actually pull the trigger.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

I had planned to get the Professional model.  After talking to them, I got the 150, which is their smallest vacuum.  The way they explained it me was that the speed for reaching final pressure would be an issue if you are a professional shop and you are a high volume shop of if you make very large projects.  Well, I am hobbyist and have no deadlines.  I do this for the pure pleasure of making fine furniture.  Nonetheless, I am reaching final pressure in about 30 seconds!  Not too shabby. 

 

[wtnhighlander]

Wade, first things first - that table top is absolutely gorgeous!

I don't understand something about the vacuum press, though. How does removing air from the bag create more than 14.7 psi (atmospheric pressure @ sea level) on the work piece? Seems to me that the bag only redirects the pressure to the faces of the work, rather than allowing air to permeate the thing. But wouldn't the actual pressure (psi) be limited to atmospheric?

[drzaius]

Beautiful table. I love how you've matched the grain.

[wnaziri]

10 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

Wade, first things first - that table top is absolutely gorgeous!

I don't understand something about the vacuum press, though. How does removing air from the bag create more than 14.7 psi (atmospheric pressure @ sea level) on the work piece? Seems to me that the bag only redirects the pressure to the faces of the work, rather than allowing air to permeate the thing. But wouldn't the actual pressure (psi) be limited to atmospheric?

Boy, you sure ask complicated questions, LOL.  

I surely don't understand the full mechanism and perhaps one of our engineer types can give you a cogent answer.  However, I think the answer might be that the pressure is negative pressure that is created in all directions but by having a platten, you are directing it where you want it.  Think of the videos where they do bent laminations and the vacuum creates plenty of pressure to hold curved pieces in position easily because of the forces generated by the negative pressure.

[Mick S]

 

12 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

Wade, first things first - that table top is absolutely gorgeous!

I don't understand something about the vacuum press, though. How does removing air from the bag create more than 14.7 psi (atmospheric pressure @ sea level) on the work piece? Seems to me that the bag only redirects the pressure to the faces of the work, rather than allowing air to permeate the thing. But wouldn't the actual pressure (psi) be limited to atmospheric?

 Vacuum plattens have grooves or channels in them to allow air to flow more evenly to the areas the bag doesn't touch, e.g. the bottom of the table top. It yields better distribution of vacuum on flat panels while keeping the panel flat.