OldSouthWoodCraft Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 I know alot of you guys and gals on here throw out the Starett name alot when it comes to squares, bevel gauges, and other small measuring devices. I can definitely see why as they have been around for a long time and put out a very consistent product, but a name I rarely see is Bora. Why is that? Stigma, inconsistency, or just too new and untested? Personally I own both and often reach for my Bora far more often. Mostly because I don't want to potentially drop a vintage Starrett. That being said I do love my Bora and I'm seeing it more and more in my local market. Especially with their clamp on edge guides and magnetic square which requires no thumb screw. James Hamilton (Stumpy Nubs) recommends them quite a bit but I imagine they are a sponsor of his. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chet Posted June 13, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 I use PEC that I get from Harry Epstein's. Their inexpensive blems but nothing wrong with the accuracy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 The Epstein squares are one of the best values in woodworking. Quality, cheap. Drop one, replace it. I've got a bunch and they've all been great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 Tools are made for using regardless of brand. I appreciate that dropping a square can be a bummer but they are easy to reset. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewyo Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 I got two 4" Epstein combo squares and a 12" Starrett combo square for Xmas. To all appearances the Epsteins match up in squareness. On one of them the thumb screw doesn't cinch down securely as the other. I can move the rule after it is "locked" if I'm not careful. The Starrett combo square is flawless and costs considerably more than the blems from Epstein, but I wanted a "dead nuts accurate" square. I have a Bora edge guide clamp. It's okay. Certainly better than the cheaper version I have which is made by E. Emerson Tool Co. I also have a Starrett No. 221 micrometer. It is a work of art as well as a super nice tool. It's supposedly accurate to+/-.00005" but who measures to those tolerances? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, davewyo said: but I wanted a "dead nuts accurate" square. I have a set of Groz machinists squares for that...also cheap and perfectly square (in the context of woodworking)...and they can't get knocked out of square unless you step on the damn things. I had a Starrett combo square set and I sold it after I discovered Epstein...and quadrupled my square collection for the same price. Starretts are nice tools, but I think the price tags are more justifiable to machinists than to woodworkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Eric. said: I have a set of Groz machinists squares for that...also cheap and perfectly square (in the context of woodworking)...and they can't get knocked out of square unless you step on the damn things. I had a Starrett combo square set and I sold it after I discovered Epstein...and quadrupled my square collection for the same price. Starretts are nice tools, but I think the price tags are more justifiable to machinists than to woodworkers. https://www.amazon.com/Groz-Precision-Square-secure-plastic/dp/B01D943R58 those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, bushwacked said: https://www.amazon.com/Groz-Precision-Square-secure-plastic/dp/B01D943R58 those? Yep. But I got mine at Rockler for like $30 on sale. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewyo Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Eric. said: Starretts are nice tools, but I think the price tags are more justifiable to machinists than to woodworkers. Agreed. Beyond setting up machines I can't see where anything near "dead on balls accuracy" is needed for woodworkers. What's a few 100ths when you're dealing with wood? I have a $15 3" machinist's square for checking that my band saw blade is 90 degrees to the table and such tasks. I think it says Made in Singapore. It checks out as square against the $100 Starrett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eric. Posted June 13, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 1 minute ago, davewyo said: Agreed. Beyond setting up machines I can't see where anything near "dead on balls accuracy" is needed for woodworkers. What's a few 100ths when you're dealing with wood? I have a $15 3" machinist's square for checking that my band saw blade is 90 degrees to the table and such tasks. I think it says Made in Singapore. It checks out as square against the $100 Starrett. Yep same here. Honestly the only time I break out the machinist's squares is for setting up...um...machines. I use doubles and combos for everything else, and they're perfectly adequate. Wood moves more than the tolerances of decent combo/double squares. That's not a permission slip to buy BORG garbage, but Starrett is unnecessary. Epstein. It's gold. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bushwacked Posted June 13, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 damn you thread ... just picked up PEC 6" Double Square (4R) USA 7105-4R 1 PEC 12" 2 pc Combination Square (4R) USA PEC 4" Combination Square (4R) USA 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSouthWoodCraft Posted June 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 Tools are made for using regardless of brand. I appreciate that dropping a square can be a bummer but they are easy to reset. Dropping my Starrett is less about knocking it of square and more about ruining a hand me down piece. It's got far more sentimental value than actual value at this point. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSouthWoodCraft Posted June 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 Yep same here. Honestly the only time I break out the machinist's squares is for setting up...um...machines. I use doubles and combos for everything else, and they're perfectly adequate. Wood moves more than the tolerances of decent combo/double squares. That's not a permission slip to buy BORG garbage, but Starrett is unnecessary. Epstein. It's gold. So are you saying that Bora is garbage? If so, in what way is it garbage? Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, OldSouthWoodCraft said: So are you saying that Bora is garbage? If so, in what way is it garbage? He actually said BORG. BORG garbage being stamped squares from home depot or lowes. Although I have an Empire TriSquare that's dead accurate and I trust for a lot of what I do. I've since added a bunch of WP squares to replace it, mainly due to that lip that keeps the square flat on the workpiece. I have a BORA square and it seems ok, I don't like the plastic on it though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 No I'm not saying that. I have no experience with Bora aside from a clamping tool I bought years ago and it was fine. I'm just saying the Epstein squares are a proven value and it's hard for me to recommend anything else. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSouthWoodCraft Posted June 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 No I'm not saying that. I have no experience with Bora aside from a clamping tool I bought years ago and it was fine. I'm just saying the Epstein squares are a proven value and it's hard for me to recommend anything else. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk That's completely my fault Eric. I saw BORG and interpreted that as a typo for BORA. The only time I see the word BORG is in relation to Star Trek. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonPacific Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 I'm right there in the Epstein camp. I've used some nice Starret tools at classes, but I'd be hard pressed to find the difference between those and my PECs. Never seen a Bora square in person. Ultimately, the PEC's are cheap, accurate, and mostly made in the USA (according to Epstein). I don't see a lot of reason to try out Bora alternatives, since they cost more, don't offer me more accuracy (at least as far as I need it) and appear to be made in China (according to AcmeTools). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 I was thinking about grabbing some PEC machinist squares too while I was there, but they were made in India. I am sure they are just fine, but I try to buy local Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 I bought a couple Epstein squares last month and was impressed with the speedy shipping, too. This thread is starting to sound like a commercial. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, bleedinblue said: I bought a couple Epstein squares last month and was impressed with the speedy shipping, too. This thread is starting to sound like a commercial. It better be speedy I chose the cheapest option which was like $12 lol It is a good commercial though! Maybe we can bring in the Russian girl and sell some plywood in here that we can validate square with Epstein gear .... BOOM! Market that! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post G S Haydon Posted June 13, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 Could try making a square. Great way to use up some scraps. I had some nice figured q/s beech that made a nice set of three try squares. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawDustB Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 If you're in Canada like me, the Epstein squares aren't a great option since the shipping will cost you more than the squares. I ended up picking up the same thing (PEC blems) from taylor toolworks on eBay. Still not super cheap for shipping, but if you buy a few things it's reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 The most accurate "square" I posses is a $5 plastic drafting triangle. And I do own a couple of Starrets. The triangle is what I always use for machine setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 My few pieces of Starrett gear are 40 + years old . Years ago someone on this forum turned me on to the deals at Harry Epstein ,I've shared their info many times to pass it along. I must have 7 or 8 PEC squares now. I compared my $100 Starrett 24" combo square to my 24" PEC blade with my jeweler's magnifying headset, couldn't find a difference other than $100 vs $15 ! I can't remember what my Starrett protractor head cost but they were damn proud of it I'm sure. The PEC version looks identical at less than 1/4 the current prices. I've gotten several other things from Epstein and they have shipped quickly and they are quite pleasant on the phone too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 Woodpeckers is selling a Bora angle copying & mitering any angle tool for around $30. It looks pretty decent to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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