Chip Sawdust Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 4 hours ago, curlyoak said: Nice work. I enjoyed the narrative with the pictures. Did you intend to cut the mitres a little fat? Cleaning up the mitres I think would be easier then the rest of the joint. Thanks Derek! I agree, that’s what I’d shoot for I think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted January 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 4 hours ago, curlyoak said: Nice work. I enjoyed the narrative with the pictures. Did you intend to cut the mitres a little fat? Cleaning up the mitres I think would be easier then the rest of the joint. Thanks Derek! Thanks CO. The mitres do need to be cut fat at first since I wish to avoid the danger of over-cutting them. It is safer to pare the waste, and if you are going to do this anyway, a smidgeon of fat there in the beginning does not matter. Plus, in the current build it is not possible to undercut/pare the mitres to make them fit. The reason is the inside edge on the model calls for a bevel/mitre all the way around. I plan to do a slight cove. An undercut would open up the mitre from the inside, and any undercutting would show. Regards from Perth Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Sawdust Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Derek, the fit before your last paring looked good to me. Your attention to detail is obviously something I personally need to better develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post derekcohen Posted January 25, 2020 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 Having completed the dovetailing of the case, the next step is to bevel the front face, and rebate the rear for a back panel. I had been considering a cove in place of a bevel, however when I mocked this up it came across as appearing too busy. So, back to the bevel. The angle for the bevel was finalised at 55 degrees. This enabled a 6mm (1/4") flat edge and a bevel that ran to roughly 4mm of the first dovetail. A 45 degree bevel would run into the dovetail. The lines for the bevel were marked and then roughed out on the table saw ... The table saw is a slider, and the rip fence was used to position spacers, before clamping a panel for cutting the bevel. The bevel was then finished with a hand plane ... This Jarrah is particularly interlocked but planes well with both a high cutting angle (the little HNT Gordon palm smoother) and a close set chipbreaker (the Veritas Custom #4). Once the bevels were completed, the rear rebate was ploughed ... Now the panels could be assembled into a case once again, and the work examined for tuning. Three of the bevels needed tuning. This ranged from a smidgeon here ... ... to a largish amount ... The case was dissembled and the bevelled edged planed down, re-assembled, checked, pulled apart again, planed ... The rebates at the rear turned out to not require any tuning, with the exception of one corner ... ... where I had obviously forgotten to plane! :\ That was easily rectified ( ... but the case had to be dissembled again). Finally, this is the rear of the case and the completed rebates ... This is a rebated corner ... Here are the front bevelled corners ... This illustrates by the mitres on the corners of the dovetailed case needed to be perfect. Any undercutting would show here. Next, the drawer dividers need to be done. I'll mention here - since I would appreciate the thoughts of others - that this area has been my biggest headache. The reason is that my niece would like the drawers to have the appearance of a single board. However, to achieve this, because of the bevels, is quite complicated. First of all, the table cannot have just two drawers. The width of the drawers will be greater than their depth, and this would likely lead to racking. Consequently, I plan to build three drawers, which will be more favourable for the width vs depth ratio.. Secondly, if the drawers have dividers between them, which they need (since I do not do runners), then there will be a gap between the drawer fronts (which will not flow uninterrupted). As I see it, there are two choices: the first is to build the drawers with planted fronts. This is not a method I like (but it may be expedient). The second option is to set the dovetailed drawers sides back (recess them) to account for the internal drawer dividers. Thoughts? Regards from Perth Derek 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post derekcohen Posted January 26, 2020 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 What I need are lipped drawers.The question was whether I make them the easy way, which is by planting (glueing) on fronts. Or, whether I build them out of one piece, which is a lot more work as it requires creating half blind dovetails in a rebate. For those unfamiliar with lipped drawers .. This is the work of Christian Becksvoort ... At this point, I am going to do it the hard way and make half-blind sockets in a rebated front. This is similar to building a secret dovetail. To do this for all the drawers, the insides of the case at each end will require a spacer, essentially a 6mm panel glued to the insides. Each side will be half the thickness of the two middle drawer dividers (each 12mm). The centre dividers will be attached in a dado top and bottom. Regards from Perth Derek 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom King Posted January 26, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 I'm surprised that you would have ever even considered doing it the "easy" way . This one may even have enough natural bling to compete against applied bling in that oddly judged competition. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted January 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 Thanks Tom! Regards from Perth Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 Your builds are giving me some great ideas. I'm going to be starting on some modernish style furniture in the near future and will be reference your build frequently. I Just want to say thanks ahead of time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 10 hours ago, Tom King said: I'm surprised that you would have ever even considered doing it the "easy" way . This one may even have enough natural bling to compete against applied bling in that oddly judged competition. And thank goodness he doesn’t normally do it the easy way, not that I could ever apply it. But then again, I learn things when he does it the easy way. Looking great Derek. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 On 11/3/2019 at 10:50 AM, derekcohen said: Most imagine that the value of a slider lies with cross-cutting. It certainly is so. However it is the rip using the slider - rather than the rip fence - which is so amazing. One side of each board was to be ripped on the slider, before being jointed and resawn. Ripping on the slider is such an advantage with life edges. No jigs required. No rip fence to slide against. Just clamp the board on the slider, and run it past the saw blade. The long sliders can complete the rip in one quick pass. It occurred to me that I should take a few photos of ripping to width since the boards are longer than the slider. Here you can see that it comes up short ... Just catching up on this project. Fantastic and inspiring work as always, Derek. Thank you for sharing. On this cut, I always hear the guys at the lumber mill call this a straight line rip cut. They have a special saw that is purpose built for this function, but the principle is the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post derekcohen Posted February 1, 2020 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 The basic case complete ... My niece's expressed wish is to have a table front looking as if it was faced by a single board. The original model for this project has two drawers. I did not see this working here since, as their width would be greater than their depth, two drawers would likely rack. Consequently, I decided to build three drawers of equal width (I considered a narrow drawer in the centre, but decided this would be too busy). In order that the figure of the drawer fronts would not be interrupted by the drawer dividers, the drawers are to have half-blind dovetailed side lips, such as these ... The drawers will each have a side lip of 6mm. This requires a 6mm wide side panel on each side of the case, and two 12mm wide drawer dividers. This will allow three drawers to run adjacent to one another, and the three fronts to be cut from a single board. The drawer fronts will come from this board ... Below are the panels for fitting ... It occurred to me later (of course!) that the 6mm end panels could have been made to run with the grain direction of the case. Being the same Jarrah, this would have counted for any expansion/contraction, and there would not be any danger of movement being intrusive. Too late. It's glued. So I did the next best thing, and planed 2mm off the upper and lower edges. This will permit enough movement, if any (it is a small and thin panel). There will not be any gaps seen as the front edges will later receive edging, which will be used as a depth stop. Frankly, the hardest part of this section of the project was accurate marking out of the two central drawer dividers. These need to be both perfectly parallel, and also aligned vertically (the lower panel with the upper panel). There is a second area that needed to checked, which is important for drawers to work well, and this that the lower panel is flat - that is, does not have any hills. I learned my lesson the hard way about this. All good. The way I go about marking the dados for the dividers is to make templates for their position. These are used on both the lower panel, as below, and then the upper panel ... The process is self-explanatory ... The dados are knifed deeply ... Chisel walls cut ... .. and then the waste is removed with a router plane ... The dados are just 2mm deep. That is deep enough to prevent any movement. This process is quick and relaxing (compared to setting up and using a power router). Once done, the process is repeated on the upper panel ... All ready for a dry fit. The rear of the case ... ... and the front ... Happily, all is square ... Tomorrow I shall glue it up. Regards from Perth Derek 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Man that wood is beautiful! Stellar workmanship there Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Derek, your last post showing the drawer fronts from the single board. How did you cut this, with a taper jig or on the bs and then to the jointer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted February 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Coop, I simply used the bandsaw freehand close to the line, than planed to the line, and the table saw for the parallel cut. Regards from Perth Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post derekcohen Posted February 2, 2020 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 We ended the last session with the drawer dividers installed ... Everything was nice and square, but the more I thought about what I had done, the unhappier I became. Such an elementary oversight. I cannot believe I did it, and also that no one pulled me up for it. What was it? Two items: The first was that the grain for the drawer dividers runs the wrong way. Although the boards are as close to quarter grain as possible, which adds to stability, they will expand vertically. That could cause them to buckle, and then the drawers will not run nicely. The second is that I could have built in a way to close up the drawer dividers against the back of the (to-be-built) side lipped drawer fronts ... this is to be used as a drawer stop ... at this stage it would be necessary to add a filler. Not good. So I re-did the drawer dividers. Here is the rear of the case. The drawers are left long on purpose ... Provision is made for the dividers to be adjustable in length (to close up with the back of the drawer front). They are given rebates to slide further forward ... it will be necessary that they move around 15mm forward (to within 5-6mm of the opening). The rebate is 2mm deep (the depth of the dados), and largely created with a cutting gauge. The blade slices away end grain, and the resulting splitting away makes it easy to chop the remainder. Here are the dividers, further forward than before, and capable of moving a little more still ... The plan was to glue up the case. However, before this is done, it is wise to fit the drawer fronts across the width (the height will be done at a later date). This is the board for the three drawers. Removing one end, the board is set on the case ... It is now apparent that the front of the bevel, where it meets the drawers, is not straight. It is possible to see a small amount of flat ... This is especially noticeable in this corner .. This is fairly easy to remedy ... mark with a pencil, and then plane away the pencil marks ... Perfect now ... The other end needs no more than a smidgeon removed .. The upper side is now treated the same way. Interestingly, this needs no work at all. Time to saw the drawer fronts to size. First step is to mark the middle point of each divider (since the lips will share the divider). The mark can be seen in the rebate ... The drawer board across the front ... Transfer the mark, and then saw the drawer front ... This process is repeated. Here are the three sequential drawer fronts. You can just make out the breaks ... I am happy with this. And so, finally, the case is glued up (Titebond Liquid Hide Glue - reversibility and long open time). Looking like a trussed up fowl .... Regards from Perth Derek 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Sawdust Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 The dividers seem obvious now that you pointed it out. Hard to be critical of your work, Derek, I think we were all still looking at the case and not thinking past it. But - it’s sitting on your bench with time to think about it, and obviously you have The corrective actions are sublime. The drawer fronts look quite thick, is that 8/4 wood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmac Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Much better solution for the drawer dividers, getting the grain running with the top and bottom is something you really needed to do. You could have gotten away with the other setup if you just glued the front edge of the dividers and left the rest floating in the dado. Because you are covering the dividers with your drawers you would have been ok (no end grain showing that would look out of place), but you still would have the issue of expansion and possible buckling of the case. I like the change to getting the grain matching the top and bottom of the case. I am still concerned long term with your side pieces you glued on to the ends of the case. I know you built in some room for expansion, but I'm worried such a large area glued up cross grain like that may cause other problems. Mainly cracking or splitting of the sides of your case since the sides will not be able to expand horizontally. Also the top and bottom are not restricted like the sides so you'll have differing expansion and contracting going on with the sides and the top and bottom. Early in my woodworking development I've paid dearly for gluing areas cross grain like that. Do you think it's possible to plane off those pieces without ruining what you have done so far? Don't mean to be hyper critical, the work you are doing is exquisite, hate to see that kind of workmanship like that suffer in the long run. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Sawdust Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 I stand corrected. Bmac was clearly still looking at the case! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted February 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Quote Do you think it's possible to plane off those pieces without ruining what you have done so far? No, I would not try and plane it away. There are expansion grooves at the bottom and top. I am thinking that I might also add a groove through the centre - it will never be seen and it just reduces the surface area some more. What do you think? Regards from Perth Derek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmac Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, derekcohen said: No, I would not try and plane it away. There are expansion grooves at the bottom and top. I am thinking that I might also add a groove through the centre - it will never be seen and it just reduces the surface area some more. What do you think? Regards from Perth Derek I like that idea, didn't even think of it. Could even do 2 grooves if need be, not sure how long the end pieces are. Do you think the vertical grooves will affect smooth drawer movement? If they do I'm sure you can come up with a solution for that as you move forward, and as you said the grooves will be completely hidden. By separating the internal piece you've likely solved the main problem of the cross grain glue up! Great idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted February 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 The other item to factor in is that the case is 20mm thick and the internal side panel is only 6mm thick. Not only is it insulated, and has two expansions grooves, but it is 40mm narrower than the case side. I doubt it can have much impact. To be safe, I with add a 6mm groove through the centre. Regards from Perth Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmac Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, derekcohen said: The other item to factor in is that the case is 20mm thick and the internal side panel is only 6mm thick. Not only is it insulated, and has two expansions grooves, but it is 40mm narrower than the case side. I doubt it can have much impact. To be safe, I with add a 6mm groove through the centre. Regards from Perth Derek Yes, I thought about that also, the thinner internal piece will likely lessen the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post derekcohen Posted February 3, 2020 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 The case was glued up yesterday, with everything tight and square as one could wish, but I did not sleep well. I was haunted by the thought that there was a problem that would come to a head some time in the future. If you look at the grain direction of the two centre drawer dividers, you notice that the grain is vertical. That is the way it should be. Wood moves, expands and contracts. It does this in reaction to moisture in the air. When it moves, it does so across the grain. That is why solid wood drawer bottoms have grain across the width - allowing the drawer bottom to move towards the back of the drawer, rather than towards the sides (where it will be blocked and then buckle). These drawer dividers will be butted up against the rear of the drawer lips and act as drawer stops. The front third of the divider will be glued in the dado, forcing any expansion towards the rear of the case. All good. The two spacers at the inside ends of the case have the grain running horizontally. I glued this in before I realised that I had cut them this way. I had done the same with the internal dividers, but re-cut them, as shown in the previous article. The end spacers will expand vertically, and to allow for this, I provided a 2mm gap below and above the panels. That is what kept me awake. The end spacers are 6mm thick. The case, to which they are glued, is 20mm thick and about 40mm wider. Initially I was concerned that the spacer would be overwhelmed by the case moving, and buckle. Having thought some more about this, I am no longer concerned that this will occur. Why? Because movement in the case would instead "stretch" the spacer length-wise. I started to breath again. In the end, I decided to reduce the height of the spacers by half. This would allow them plenty of space to expand, when necessary, as well as reducing their impact inside the case. Here is one side ... Taped for visibility and protection ... The saw is a 16" Wenzloff & Sons tenon saw (10 tpi) ... Three kerfs ... Deepened with a Japanese Azebiki ... ... and split out with a firmer chisel ... A Bahco carbide scraper cleans up ... The result ... Final cleanup was aided by the only shoulder plane that fitted inside the space ... Regards from Perth Derek 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 Your design, and execution has always been impressive. With that said, I see your thought processes, and execution improving with experience, and at the same time, bringing all ours up along with yours due to learning from the great photo progressions, and explanations! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted February 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 Thanks Tom. I much appreciate your kind words. Cheers Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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