Kurtis_Paull Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 I am planning to construct two pantries, one in each of the corners of our kitchen. Going to be a bench between them for seating and storage as well. May purchase Pre-made doors or build some, not 100% sure yet. Our existing kitchen needs the doors refinished, so I am not trying to match them with this project. Wondering if I should use MDF or a quality plywood for the side pieces and shelves? My wife said she would be okay if they were painted. Face frame is going to be a decent wood, not sure what to use there either. Thanks for the feedback/suggestions. P.S. I have already made my first cabinet for our laundry room, it was without a face frame and constructed out of plywood. Purchased some used doors and from the restore. Visually not that appealing though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 Hey, welcome to the forum. I don't have all the answers you're looking for, but I wouldn't use mdf or particle board for shelves. They will just sag. Look at baltic birch plywood or high grade plywood with hardwood veneer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Mark J said: but I wouldn't use mdf or particle board for shelves I don't think i would use MDF for any of it. I just don't think that MDF will provide long term strength. Plywood would be my choice. Baltic birch sanded to 150, then primed and painted should take the paint pretty well. I think I would use a real short nap roller for the painting process over brushing, I think you will get a better looking surface. Like Mark mentioned you can also us ply with a hardwood veneer. You would want the veneer of a closed gain variety, something like maple as apposed to open grain like oak if you are going to paint it. If you go with a veneer ply you can still give it a light sanding with something like 180-220 just to knock down the roughness but be careful the veneer is paper thing and you can sand through it pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 6 hours ago, Mark J said: Hey, welcome to the forum. I don't have all the answers you're looking for, but I wouldn't use mdf or particle board for shelves. They will just sag. Look at baltic birch plywood or high grade plywood with hardwood veneer. Incorrect. You can use MDF for the exterior side and particle board on the wall side. Sheves can be Particle board as well.. this will keep the price down.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Chet said: I don't think i would use MDF for any of it. I just don't think that MDF will provide long term strength. Plywood would be my choice. Baltic birch sanded to 150, then primed and painted should take the paint pretty well. I think I would use a real short nap roller for the painting process over brushing, I think you will get a better looking surface. Like Mark mentioned you can also us ply with a hardwood veneer. You would want the veneer of a closed gain variety, something like maple as apposed to open grain like oak if you are going to paint it. If you go with a veneer ply you can still give it a light sanding with something like 180-220 just to knock down the roughness but be careful the veneer is paper thing and you can sand through it pretty quickly. Repeat of first response.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Cabinets have been here since 1999 when I bought the house. I know the owner of the cabinet shop,Brandon. Looking good as of a moment ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 5 hours ago, BillyJack said: Incorrect. You can use MDF for the exterior side and particle board on the wall side. Sheves can be Particle board as well.. this will keep the price down.... 5 hours ago, BillyJack said: Repeat of first response... Maybe the original poster would appreciate you expanding on your thinking about using pdf and particle board for his project, he was looking for help and advise. Maybe some techniques or helpful hints on working with that type of product. So far all you have shared is that the first two people to respond were wrong with know explanation as to why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Moore Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 I would not use mdf either it does not hold fasteners well and in most cases has a tendency to Sag when used as shelves without some sort of stiffener plus it is heavier than plywood. I would use a uv prefinished plywood you can paint the outside and the inside would be all done. The face frame I would make from maple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Mdf has been used for cabinet finished ends and door inserts for the last 30 years. It's even used for the doors themselves. No it isnt used in shelving. Not load bearing on great spans. On the other hand particle board is. A lot of oak, birch, maple, etc cabinets use MDF veneer products. This stuff is everywhere in the housing market. 3 hours ago, Larry Moore said: I would not use mdf either it does not hold fasteners well and in most cases has a tendency to Sag when used as shelves without some sort of stiffener plus it is heavier than plywood. I would use a uv prefinished plywood you can paint the outside and the inside would be all done. The face frame I would make from maple. What fasteners? Commercial,faceless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 MDF has a lot of myths that come from people that hear about it and don't use it very often. I think MDF for the sides is ok as long as you are aware of it's limitations. It's not the greatest for shelves. Particle board is ok for shelves but my knock on both materials is weight. Particle board and MDF are nearly double the weight of veneer core ply (100lbs vs 60 lbs per sheet). If you are moving projects around your shop solo that becomes important. That said MDF is a great material to use if you are going to paint as it sands well and you won't have to use wood filer like you would on plywood. It's also a great material because it's flat and uniform. There are no hidden surprises in side. If you are using glue and building with good cabinet building techniques the screw and fastener holding limitation of MDF isn't really relevant. There are techniques to improve on the fastener holding if needed. Most of the time the fastener issue comes up when MDF is abused. I've made cabinet doors from MDF and made cabinet sides from MDF. It holds a screw well enough to mount euro cup hinges just make sure to follow the hinge manufactures recommendation on number of hinges. @BillyJack Most of the people on this forum overbuild their projects. If you can't push it off the back of a truck going 55 down the highway and have it survive it's not good enough. They want their projects to last multiple lifetimes and to look brand new the whole time which is totally fine but also not necessary in every situation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Here's one piece cabinet doors made from MDF and the machine.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Im a cabinet maker. Can't help but be protective to my trade.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Friendly looking guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlyoak Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 If it is to be painted I would use Shop grade birch from home depot. Poplar is my choice for face frames and doors. Decent price on poplar also. Particle board can work but I never use it. Too heavy, don't like the chemicals that become dust, don't let it get wet. It is cheaper and should be. My best application is I got some 1 1/2" thick. It makes a decent bench top. Better varnish it. When I was a helper in a 2 man shop in the 70's we occasionally used it. Once we glued and clamped some doors and set the clamps and doors in the pick to dry. Later we removed the clamps and retrieved the doors. But left a few scraps of particle board that we used to protect the doors from clamp marks. 2 weeks later the particle board got wet and crumbled apart. It looked like horse shit and we both agreed. So from that time on, when we had a rare moment to use particle board we called it horse shit. "See if you can find a small piece of 5/8 horse shit." The boss had several different names for things. A tape or ruler was a corn stalk. 2 very fine measurements were fartskins and frog hairs. 2 fartskins to the frog hair. And the riddle, "around the house, around the house, behind the kitchen door" what is it? It was when he wanted me to sweep up. And there was horse shit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, drzaius said: Friendly looking guy. Little dog syndrome.....see the piece of cany in the bed. He won't eat it but you can't have it either 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 When I started in 83 the upper cabinets had 1×12 pine for the carcass...all the cabinet at that time had soffits..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Kurtis_Paull..... do you have a local cabinet shop or a cabinet supplier close by? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 MDF and particleboard are far superior to veneer-cor plywood in some applications: Of course, white pine, cross-cut and containing the pith, are ideal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtis_Paull Posted December 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 Kurtis_Paull..... do you have a local cabinet shop or a cabinet supplier close by?Yes their are a couple cabinet shops around my area.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaDad Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 First, not bad for your first cabinet! If it works for you for now that's all that matters. You can rebuild it later if you like. I defer to @BillyJack's professional expertise in terms of getting great cabinets done as a pro would construct them. However, it certainly gets easier and easier to value-engineer a project as one's experience with different materials grows. I would say that going the plywood route for all your boxes, while more expensive, removes a lot of the necessity of understanding the specific properties of the materials you're using for your project. If you'd get wife points for getting this done quickly and are already essentially set up to work with solid wood and plywood I don't see any problem with going that route. If you're making frame and panel doors and plan to paint them that's another good place for MDF (the panels). Are you potentially spending more than you'd absolutely have to? Certainly. That's not the only way to measure success here though. It wouldn't hurt to take some of the guesswork out of the project by relying on reference materials. There are plenty of youtube tutorials of course. A good book to help sort out this kind of thing is Bob Lang's The Complete Kitchen Cabinetmaker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 I wouldn’t be unhappy if they removed particle board and slot head screws from shelves everywhere. Neither will ever get my money! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 It's made me a living for 37 years. I've got no complaints As a hobby woodworker you can build what you want. As a professional you build what pays the bills. When I build cabinets I price the cabinets the cheapest so I can to be competitive. If they want options I increase the price. I've been beat out because of speed of turnaround, but never because of quality. Of the 30 years as a cabinet maker I have chosen the best build options from the many shops I've worked at. But speed and quality have to mix to be successful.... Wachswoods cabinets here in Odessa built mine. They have particle board shelves as you've seen. Wachswoods also build many of the high end cabinets around as well. These have full plywood interiors and 5/4 doors. Very nice. My house was a builders grade and wasn't intended for high end. Quality of build is the same but the materials are different... I open those cabinet doors all the time. Doesn't both me at all... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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