Roubo vs Hybrid Workbench

[Jonathan McCully]

Starting this thread to get everyone’s thoughts on Marc’s new workbench. I’ve been planning a Roubo build for quite awhile now, likely to start next summer after my workshop is built. I like the heft of the Roubo and the classic look of it as well as the high-quality vices from Benchcrafted, however, I also like that Marc designed his new bench to be more functional for a hybrid woodworker. I’m curious what everyone else thinks about it.

[Robby W]

Marc's build is very similar to a design Lon Schlining had in one of his books and very similar to the bench I am hoping to build: basically a heavy Roubo-ish style thick top and a trestle base. My current work bench is very similar and has worked well for me. Done right, the trestle base is very stable and relatively easy to build. It breaks down easily for moving. Another neat thing is I can reuse the base for a different top if I want and I can change the length of the base by just resizing the stretchers.

I like Marc's design and would go that way if I had the choice.

 

[wtnhighlander]

I haven't really looked at Marc's new bench yet, but the description sounds like you say... a Roubo-ish style, with adjustments to better accommodate power tools. Honestly, that approach is the best thing most of us should take from the project. Think about your work habits and methods, and design the bench to fit your needs.

[Mark J]

I haven't seen the new bench.  Do you have a URL for it?

[Tpt life]

1 hour ago, Mark J said:

I haven't seen the new bench.  Do you have a URL for it?

He released to YouTube on the Woodwhisperer account. 
 

Marc never said he disliked the first bench. He is a content creator who is at least partially responding to requests from his audience. As a platform leader, he has a good audience in which to auction that first bench for charity. I don’t personally see any way it is “better” for any particular style of work, but rather “more convenient” for certain situations. A bench is such a fluid thing, with so many multitudes of options. Do your research, build the bench that is convenient for your situation. 

[pkinneb]

I like some things about it for sure, like at its base it really is a Roubo bench just designed to make it more accessible for more woodworkers which I think is awesome! I love the gap stop and may incorporate the channels in mine so that I can make different holders. I also think if my bench was a foot shorter I wouldn't notice. I have used the sliding dead man on several occasions so would keep that I also prefer square dogs but that's a preference thing. I have a power real near my bench so no need for built in power but I can see how that would be very useful. Regarding hardware Marc is right that almost any will work having said that I am never giving up my Bench Crafted hardware never like no I mean it never!! I would also say that while my Roubo was more challenging to make and cost more its also a legacy piece for me its more than a bench its a statement of the work I could produce at the time it was made and I am very proud of that every time I walk into my shop and think, I made that

[Chestnut]

I don't see any reason why you couldn't add the extra things that are on his new bench into the Roubo build. That said there is no reason you couldn't incorporate the power tool items that Marc has put on the new bench into a roubo. The new bench really is a roubo just with less lumber in the legs and top and cheaper hardware.

I also agree Bench crafted hardware is awesome. I don't know how marc is going to stand using the cheap stuff. I honestly think in a year or 2 he'll be making another bench with new BC hardware.

If someone wanted to save money I think making the bench out of softwood would help, as long as higher quality wood is used and it's dried further than how it's sold from the lumber yard. I also think the wagon vise is completely unnecessary. I didn't install mine in an effort to save money and it's been 2 years and I've never once ordered it because i felt it was missing.

I'm going to be blunt, of all of Marcs arguments for the new bench I think all of them except cost are absurd. The original roubo was designed with knock down hardware. The size is EASILY changed from the plans. If a roubo is too complicated to make, hang up woodworking because the roubo is about as easy as it gets.

My argument on the cost is this, if you are considering a roubo, you obviously are making enough stuff that the cost of your tools shouldn't be much of a consideration. If your that hard on cash where you think making your own furniture is going to save you money just don't start wood working and buy your furniture from Ikea or start following Steve Ramsey. Woodworking is not a money saving adventure.

[wtnhighlander]

'Nut, I think the real point is that Marc makes content for a living, not furniture. Exploring different workbench options opens a huge field of possibilities for new content.

[Chestnut]

1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said:

'Nut, I think the real point is that Marc makes content for a living, not furniture. Exploring different workbench options opens a huge field of possibilities for new content.

I agree 200%. It's prefect business sense to capitalize on his #1 project sale. Most that bought the original roubo will probably buy this one. I can appreciate good business sense and not agree with the product or intent.

Though I'm not sure i understand your comment in context with my post. My points are counter arguments to his marketing arguments targeted at a person interested in making a woodworking bench. They are Intended not to discourage Marc from making money but to encourage conversation with that person that is torn between options.

[Jonathan McCully]

I think I agree with all of you. Rather than creating what Marc thinks is a superior bench, he’s just trying to accommodate his follower’s requests by creating a bench that is more accessible to a larger audience. I think that I’ll still create mine in the original Roubo style, because, as @pkinneb said, I desire to build it more as a legacy piece, a big and heavy piece that I’ll use for the rest of my life and that my son may eventually put into a shop as a memory of the time we built together. I don’t desire mine to be particularly mobile, either on casters or knock-down, as I’m hopeful I’ll never have to move a shop again. I do like the incorporation of power as well as the channels with different holders. 

I created this thread more to get everyone’s thoughts on the new bench vs the old, than to get suggestions for my own build. I’ve appreciated all the feedback so far though.

[Robby W]

In the not too distant future, I will be building what will probably be my final workbench. I have been thinking about this for a long time and my design is similar to what Marc came up with: a thick, heavy top on a trestle style base. I am going to use the Lie-Nielsen tail vice, but haven't decided what I want to use for the front vise. It will be 6 feet long and 24" wide. I am tending towards a solid top. Think Lie-Nielsen big workbench, but shorter, and that isn't too far from what Marc built.

 

[gee-dub]

Benches are very subjective.  The best format and features of a bench are those that are best for what you do and how you do it.  This makes it hard to say one bench is better than another.  They're just different.

My benches have evolved over the versions.  The current bench is smaller than the previous ones.  I found that a lot of extra space became a landing area for things that do not belong.  You see?  This is me altering my bench to suit my personal issues . . . .

The point is that a leg vise is great but added no real value for me.  Twin screws at front and end serve me better.  I traded hardwoods for composites, square dogs for round, flush front leg faces for a top overhang and so forth.

I always call my next bench "the next bench" or "the next, next bench".  The current "next bench" has lasted a while.  I do not know that it will be the last bench but I have not had any gripes so its immediate future is secure.

[wtnhighlander]

@gee-dub, can you describe the composition of your bench top? And how durable it has been for you, especially the dog holes? I am formulating plans for my own "next bench", and considering alternatives.

[Coop]

On 11/1/2021 at 7:43 PM, wtnhighlander said:

@gee-dub, can you describe the composition of your bench top? And how durable it has been for you, especially the dog holes? I am formulating plans for my own "next bench", and considering alternatives.

+1

I built my bench in 2014, shortly after joining this forum. At the time I didn’t think I had the ability to build the Roubo and constructed a substantial base with drawers and skimped on the top, using 3 pieces of 3/4” HD ply and screwed a 1/8” hardboard to the top, for easy replacement. That was 7 years ago and I still see no need to replace it due to abuse. However, for the last few days, I have been chopping mortises and I find how un-solid my top is. Unfortunately I responded to someone on here how Idid it and wish I could retract it. Having said all of that, my next goal is to completely replace the top with a more substantial one. Am interested also on @gee-dub‘s composition material? 

 

[gee-dub]

On 11/1/2021 at 5:43 PM, wtnhighlander said:

@gee-dub, can you describe the composition of your bench top? And how durable it has been for you, especially the dog holes? I am formulating plans for my own "next bench", and considering alternatives.

I'll try not to take over the thread but, I didn't post a thread on this bench for whatever reason.  Otherwise I would just link to it. This was an evolution from things learned up till mid-2015 when I built it.  Previous benches were varied but the immediate predecessor was 4 layers of 3/4" MDF.  This worked great but required too such support IMHO.  Current bench is 2 laminated layers of 3/4" BB ply with 2 layers of 3/4" MDF laminated on top.  This is adequately self supporting.

The top is coated with BLO and then paste waxed.  I refresh the wax every year or so.  Here it is after about 3 years of abuse.

I find the MDF tops really rugged when BLO'd and waxed.  The dog holes are used a lot and have never failed.  I do chamfer about 1/8" around them to keep any sharp edges from crushing under stress.

The top is anchored by large dowels driven up from underneath.  You will see this method in a number of bench books.

I run a LV large twin screw on the front and a LV small twin screw at the end. 

A bit of leather or cork on the chop only give me just the amount of grip I am after.

The base is made of poplar as were previous benches.  It holds up well, is inexpensive and colors nicely over time.

The top is wrapped in maple and the vise chops are made of the same.  The levelers are 3/8" screwed into t-nuts. 

These in turn stand on metal plates made for machines on concrete (really just stamped 1/8" steel with a sort of cup pressed into them to keep them centered on the foot).

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

 

 

[BonPacific]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:34 AM, gee-dub said:

 

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but how do you enjoy the twin-screw vise? Anu complaints about the kit installation or functionality?

[gee-dub]

On 12/5/2021 at 8:09 PM, BonPacific said:

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but how do you enjoy the twin-screw vise? Anu complaints about the kit installation or functionality?

Still love ’em. 

[sjeff70]

What drew me to the new Roubo is the ability to break it down which facilitates moving into new homes over the years.  Marc now needs a new Guild Project where he teaches you how to put the original vice hardware on this new Roubo. He also needs a Guild Project that's 'All-About Joinery' but I understand why he doesn't. I just don't like his taste in furniture.

I'm curious about what Chestnut said about the original bench being built with knock down hardware. Is this mentioned during the build project videos and how 'knock down' is it? Marc wouldn't advertise this new bench on that basis if you could knock the original one down.

It is interesting that Marc will be using lesser bench hardware in his future videos. 

 

 

[Tpt life]

I do remember the discussion in the build videos. Marc is responsive to his audience. As a content creator, he had demands for things built with “lesser” (read less expensive) hardware. This is pure analysis without critique. I think his audience made it clear it was not enough to mention using other hardware in the build videos. 

[sjeff70]

On 12/10/2021 at 6:17 PM, Tpt life said:

I do remember the discussion in the build videos. Marc is responsive to his audience. As a content creator, he had demands for things built with “lesser” (read less expensive) hardware. This is pure analysis without critique. I think his audience made it clear it was not enough to mention using other hardware in the build videos. 

It broadens his audience and they get to see it in action. Marc is a rock star.   

[Robby W]

If you think about it, a Roubo bench is a thick top with legs mortised into it, using through mortises. 

The new bench Marc made is a thick top sitting on a trestle base. Same idea, more portable.

I am not sure what the name of the style would be, but it works 

[Chestnut]

13 hours ago, sjeff70 said:

'm curious about what Chestnut said about the original bench being built with knock down hardware. Is this mentioned during the build project videos and how 'knock down' is it? Marc wouldn't advertise this new bench on that basis if you could knock the original one down.

I don't know why he is advertising it the way he is.... Maybe he forgot his original plans are knockdown? Maybe he wants to sever ties all together from bench crafted? It's nice that Marc is including different aspects of his audience. That's going to be difficult to balance the crowds that want high end projects and those that want inexpensive projects.

I don't know how far the hybrid one goes but both the Bench crafted roubo plans (the plans marc based his build on) and Marc's roubo plans had bolts with barrel nuts holding the bottom long rail on. The end assemblies were not knock down but it doesn't seem necessary. I also read from quite a few people that made their bench knockdown that never took it apart to move. They either moved the whole thing or took the top slabs off.

Marc's plans ( i tried to pick a shot that doesn't show any build information for copyright reasons)

Benchcrafted images of completed project from their plans. You can see the bolt heads on the bottom of the leg.