15-20K for shop overhaul. Need ideas and what would you buy?

[shaneymack]

Can you give us an example, or photo maybe?

 

Here is the picture of what he is referring to

 

 

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Eric.]

13 minutes ago, Pug said:

Can you give us an example, or photo maybe?

I doubt it.

 

[Tpt life]

That is a forum standard. Pics, or it didn't happen. Then we can all decide if the choices before failure were truly wise. 

[Eric.]

The only pics available of a failed Domino joint are either of an improperly made one or one that was run over by a truck.  There's no such thing as spontaneous inexplicable failure in ANY joint.  They can all be explained, and they always have something to do with improper construction or abuse.

[Cheeset202]

I bought the domino DF700 with the Seneca small mortising adapter.  This machine rocks!  I have built traditional M&T joints for many years with routers and table saw tenoning jig and several years ago bought a mortising machine, which I sold a couple of months ago as I knew it would get very little use and it was taking up valuable shop floor space.  I find it hard to believe a properly constructed domino joint would fail easier than a traditional M&T joint.  Granted the mortising machine is nice for through  M&T joints and I can always go back to my old skills if one is desired.

Now back to the original subject I would probably not include the domino on the first $20k list but it would be on my next $20k list!

[derekcohen]

I purchased a Domino 500 late last year (and the Seneca fence - great combination) for a kitchen re-build. Kitchens are renewable items (well, my wife tells me so ), and the previous one was 25 years old. I replaced all the doors and drawer fronts with a Shaker design, book matching all the panels in solid Hard Maple. 

Link:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/KitchenComplete.html

As far as I am concerned, this is an ideal use for the Domino. Quick and clean work. Doors that will not need to be repaired down the line, unlike furniture where the joinery is designed to be taken apart.

My current piece is a sofa table. The design ...

link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SofaTable-Legs.html

.. calls for more complex joinery than the Domino can offer. For example, the bowed aprons are morticed into the legs ..

.. and those are hefty mortices! You could make up with doubled/quadripled dominos, but you will run into the issue that comes up next - how do you fit the drawer rails and end stile, which lie at the two ends of the table? There is not enough space for a mortice or a domino. 

Consequently, I used sliding dovetails ...

and on the right end ..

The point is, one must not become dependent on a machine to do the joinery - and one type of joinery at that. It is vital to remain flexible. Get a Domino, but don't see it as "preferred to" or "better than" another machine. They all have a place in joinery. The danger of thinking/buying "better than" is that is all you end up with and use. That restricts your designs. Which is why I still do all my joinery by hand.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Llama]

6 hours ago, derekcohen said:

The point is, one must not become dependent on a machine to do the joinery - and one type of joinery at that.

Agreed 100%. The argument above was domino vs HCM. Which domino wins far more often than not. Sliding dovetail on your piece is likely the best option. Could certainly use two small dominoes there with a slight redesign of your sides mortises. That table could be made with a domino exclusively, but there are better options.

It is best to remain flexible with your options. If the only tool you have is a hammer all problems look like nails.

[Eric.]

I think the biggest drawback to the Domino is that newbs buy them before they know how to make a M&T the old-fashioned way, which makes them piss-poor woodworkers.  It's a luxury "speed" tool that you should buy after you've learned traditional techniques.  But instead it's one of the first purchases so people can just detour around education.  Typical of modern society.

[Denette]

 

I think the biggest drawback to the Domino is that newbs buy them before they know how to make a M&T the old-fashioned way, which makes them piss-poor woodworkers.  It's a luxury "speed" tool that you should buy after you've learned traditional techniques.  But instead it's one of the first purchases so people can just detour around education.  Typical of modern society.

 

 

 

One of the first questions the old timers at my lumber yard ask newcomers is if they have a Domino. Their interest in conversation quadruples when the answer is "no."

 

There's no reason to do everything the old-fashioned way or the hard way, but there is also a very good reason for knowing how to do things without expensive green toys.

 

[Llama]

20 minutes ago, Denette said:

One of the first questions the old timers at my lumber yard ask newcomers is if they have a Domino. Their interest in conversation quadruples when the answer is "no."

That's a bit presumptuous, but so are old timers... Someone might have moved, or just looking for a new wood place...

 

[Denette]

That's a bit presumptuous, but so are old timers... Someone might have moved, or just looking for a new wood place...

 

I guess it could be, but when I said their interest in conversation, that's what I meant - they just don't talk much to people who have skipped the basics. They're still perfectly hospitable to the Festool guys, they just don't really have much to talk about. I think they use it as a generation gap barometer, haha.

[Eric.]

Note: by "old-fashioned way" I meant simply without a Domino...not necessarily with hand tools.  That's also something that should be learned but I was more talking about doing M&T with a router and table saw or some other combination of machine techniques...integral tenons, per se.

It's an extreme analogy but still relevant: I can't tell you how many people who come into the lumberyard to buy materials for their CNC and are disappointed when they can't find 14" wide stock in their desired species...because they don't know how to glue two boards together.  Talk about cart before the horse.  Don't really get the point of working with wood if you can't work with wood.

[Llama]

2 minutes ago, Denette said:

they just don't talk much to people who have skipped the basics

How do they know though? I guess that's my point on this. Is there a test to be able to chat it up with the old timers? If so, I'd be happy for them to just leave me alone   

[Eric.]

5 minutes ago, Llama said:

How do they know though? I guess that's my point on this. Is there a test to be able to chat it up with the old timers? If so, I'd be happy for them to just leave me alone   

Yeah that's a good point...if they asked me if I had a Domino and ignored me based on my answer, I would be irritated.

But Denette is right...the majority of people in general who walk into a yard know next to nothing.  That's fine, they're still allowed to buy wood...but the reality is, woodworkers tend to prefer to talk to other knowledgeable woodworkers more than than they do neophytes.  I get a real kick out of helping newbie woodworkers when their heart is in the right place - and you can usually make that conclusion fairly quickly.  If someone comes in and tells me they have a Domino but not a jointer or a planer or a selection of hand planes...I lose interest immediately.  I still answer the questions but my enthusiasm has already waned.

[Llama]

1 minute ago, Eric. said:

Yeah that's a good point...if they asked me if I had a Domino and ignored me based on that, I would be irritated.

I'd simply go somewhere else... I would probably say something shitty like why the french does it matter? Can usually get the intention of the question easily enough.

I like my lumber yard... I go in, they know me by name. Usually chat it up with someone, pick some wood, they write the ticket and I go pay. Pull around to load up, and I leave. 

[BillyJack]

22 hours ago, Pug said:

You have seen a domino joint fail, where a similarly sized intregal tenon would have been okay? This surprises me, as I have used hundreds of dominoes and they are all still doing great!

Can you give us an example, or photo maybe?

You'll have to search other forums as it has already been pounded out...700 bar stools were involved...

[Tpt life]

12 minutes ago, BillyJack said:

You'll have to search other forums as it has already been pounded out...700 bar stools were involved...

Man, what a cop out. Contribute in meaningful ways or please bow out. No one, from the novice to the pro, has time for foundationless nay saying. 

[Llama]

25 minutes ago, BillyJack said:

You'll have to search other forums as it has already been pounded out...700 bar stools were involved...

This forum needs those lol buttons like FB has. I tried hovering over the like button, but it didn't work.  So here is my version.

[rodger.]

2 hours ago, BillyJack said:

You'll have to search other forums as it has already been pounded out...700 bar stools were involved...

Which forums? Can you provide a link to the thread?

[Tpt life]

6 minutes ago, Pug said:

Which forums? Can you provide a link to the thread?

Pug, I hunted out three. Each of them pointed to anecdotal evidence with no empirical data. Each of them had doubters that hundreds of of stools should fail on the basis of a particular loose tenon product. I fear chasing a ghost unless BJ can claim he worked the shop that made the stools. 

[Cliff]

Only broke ass joints I've seen are my M&T that were loose in the summer and fell apart in the winter. I used the domino on one project and can't possibly see how to make it fail. And I'm like the king of wrecking woodworking projects.

[Eric.]

LOL

Yeah, 700 stools of one poor design.  I'm sure it was the Domino's fault.  I know my furniture is just crumbling beneath me.

What a joke.

[Denette]

LOL

Yeah, 700 stools of one poor design.  I'm sure it was the Domino's fault.  I know my furniture is just crumbling beneath me.

What a joke.

The only possible way that it could have been the Domino's fault is if they were batching things out with a single, catastrophically faulty unit and didn't bother to test things until they were 700 units in. Seems pretty dang unlikely.

[Cygnus A]

Hey guys. You are cluttering up my thread. This was supposed to be about me blowing a lot of money.

[woodbutcher74]

Personally I think you should outfit you shop with all new Ryobi tools and donate the rest to the Woodbutcher Retirement Shop Fund.