leros

Good dust collection with 120v?

Recommended Posts

I have a 18'x22' shop. I'm at the point where I want to run rigid ductwork to all of my tools (table saw, jointer, planer, band saw, miter saw, and a few more things in the future).

I currently have the Harbor Freight 2HP dust collection with a Wynn filter on it. It works fairly well connected directly to each tool. 

One thing to note is that I only have 120V in the shop. I'd like to avoid getting 220V if possible because it would be an expensive install (my shop is an old recording studio with some fancy sound proofed walls). 

I'm considering a few options:

  1. Keep the Harbor Freight 2HP dust collector and add a Super Dust Deputy cyclone. 
    • Cost: $300 for the cyclone and collection drum
    • Pros: Easy and cheap
    • Cons: Only a 5" input
  2. Keep the Harbor Freight 2HP dust collector, mod it for 6", and get the Super Dust Deputy XL.
    • Cost: $500 : $400 for the cyclone, collection drum and another $100 for the equipment for mod
    • Pros: 6" input
    • Cons: The HF collector really doesn't have enough CFMs for the XL cyclone, although I've seen people do this apparently with Oneida's blessing. 
  3. Buy a new 120V dust collector. For example the Jet 1.5HP cyclone
    • Cost: $1100
    • Pros: 6" input, already assembled (no DIY)
    • Cons: Possibly not much better than the HF??? I haven't found too much info on this guy. 
  4. Cave in and get 220V
    • Cost: been quoted over $1k for the 220v install + cost of new dust collector
    • Pros: lets me get a more powerful collector
    • Cons: freaking expensive $$$$ :(

What would you do? My instinct is to go with option #2. This lets me spend as little money as possible while still setting up 6" ducting and seeing what I can get out of my HF dust collector. If it's abysmal, I can bite the bullet and upgrade in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1-1/2 - 2hp blower is probably not going to give you enough CFM for a hard piped system in your shop.  As well if you size up to 6" ducting your air velocity is going to drop and you will be having plugs in your lines.  By the time you get all your duct in and hooked up to each machine you may have too much static air loss to be effective to pull your shavings.  Anything bigger will require 220v.  Probably best to add your cyclone (which cause more cfm loss) and hook up directly to you machines one at a time.  Lots of guys on here with experience with the smaller systems so they may have other ideas to help you.  Lots or info online on system design and equipment sizing.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I run a 120 V collector (1.5 HP) and it does a great job. However, its not ducted. I run a short length of 5" flex hose and connect the machines as I need them. I dont think my collector (delta 50-760) would handle a piped system, even though it runs a 11+" impeller, and has a 5" inlet. You really need to step up to a larger motor and impeller to run a central chip collector. If you want central dust collection, then you need even more power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really, only you can answer your question.  If the funds are available, that's the obvious answer.  If they're not available, then you're left with choices that probably don't make a lot of difference anyway.

With that said, there's a lot of people here that run a smaller system with acceptable results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, TIODS said:

Really, only you can answer your question.  If the funds are available, that's the obvious answer.  If they're not available, then you're left with choices that probably don't make a lot of difference anyway.

With that said, there's a lot of people here that run a smaller system with acceptable results.

I've got the funds, I just don't want to spend excess money if I don't need to. I'm not looking for Bill Pentz perfection, but I don't want to build a system that won't work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, leros said:

I've got the funds, I just don't want to spend excess money if I don't need to. I'm not looking for Bill Pentz perfection, but I don't want to build a system that won't work. 

Understandable..  

I spent the funds and have never regretted it.  Fortunately, it's not something you have to invest in often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I wouldn't spend any more money on DC until you're ready for a big cyclone. I know you say you don't want to install 220 in the shop but eventually you'll want to get tools that require it. Moving DC from machine to machine is an inconvenience but I did it for 10 years and it was fine.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leros,

 

Unless you modify your HF with the 12" rikon impeller (up from the installed 10") you will not have enough power for your shop. There is an old DC review that shows the results of putting that small of an impeller on a DC http://www.portercable.com/uploads/PCD/Documents/News/182DustCollectors.pdf  It basically shows the stock HF 2HP DC is outperformed by every 1.5HP DC tested due to the smaller impeller.  Unless you go to a 3hp blower or higher there really is no need to use 6" ducts. 5" is optimum for the 1.5-2HP DC.

 

If you did the upgrade, mounted the blower on the SDD and used a good large filter with 5" ducts you could probably get adequate chip collection, but nothing more.  It really depends on your expectations.  Many people do less than the above and believe it is adequate for them.  Of course that is purely subjective.

You could also get a 2 or 3hp DC on CL and add a SDD (the 3HP would require 220)

Hope that helps.  Let us know what you do.

 

Carl

Edited by Carl10
fixed link

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, leros said:

I'm not looking for Bill Pentz perfection, but I don't want to build a system that won't work. 

Then your first two options should work.  I have a 2HP Grizzly DC with a SDD cyclone and fully ducted with 4" PVC and LV blast gates.  My tag line has become: "It cleans up the mess but doesn't make the air safe to breathe."  It's totally inferior to a real 5HP system but it does what I expect it to do.

Keep in mind that adding a cyclone decreases efficiency.  I vent directly outside and eliminated the filter to make up for this loss.  I would recommend trying to do that or you may find the system struggling in the CFM department.

It's not an ideal system but it's adequate...as long as you don't mind wearing your respirator.  Collection from the jointer and planer are very good...table saw and bandsaw - not so much.  But that's mostly due to poor DC engineering at the tool rather than lack of suck power.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've watched a lot of shop tour videos and see many shops filled with dust collection ducting. This might work if you have 10'+ ceilings but many times it looks like the shop is being strangled by an octopus. For me, I'm thinking about adding a couple wall-mounted Dust Right units with a Y splitter between two machines. I know that doesn't help with your choice but something to think about.

Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$1000 to install a 220V 20A line?! WTH?! Do some research, you can probably do it yourself. IMO if you want serious/proper dust collection with a ducted setup you're going to have to get at least a 3HP collector. Otherwise skip the ducting and connect a smaller dust collector to each tool as you use it with as short a run of flex hose as possible. And get a good Wynn filter for whatever dust collector you end up with. You want as far below 1 micron filtration as you can get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I run a modified HF unit on 5" duct, longest run is 41'.  As @Eric. said it keeps the shop clean, which is all I ask.  I exhaust outside, use a SSD and put in a larger impeller.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's a chore to get 240V to the shop then you should run a feeder for a subpanel in the shop. You're gonna need it eventually. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Eric. said:

Then your first two options should work.  I have a 2HP Grizzly DC with a SDD cyclone and fully ducted with 4" PVC and LV blast gates.  My tag line has become: "It cleans up the mess but doesn't make the air safe to breathe."  It's totally inferior to a real 5HP system but it does what I expect it to do.

Keep in mind that adding a cyclone decreases efficiency.  I vent directly outside and eliminated the filter to make up for this loss.  I would recommend trying to do that or you may find the system struggling in the CFM department.

It's not an ideal system but it's adequate...as long as you don't mind wearing your respirator.  Collection from the jointer and planer are very good...table saw and bandsaw - not so much.  But that's mostly due to poor DC engineering at the tool rather than lack of suck power.

Which Grizzly?  What is the inlet size?  

I have been looking closely at this one: http://www.grizzly.com/products/2HP-Canister-Dust-Collector-with-Aluminum-Impeller-Polar-Bear-Series/G0548ZP

Just wondering what I can expect from it if I set up in a ducted system.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, TheAverageCraftsman said:

Which Grizzly?  What is the inlet size?  

I have been looking closely at this one: http://www.grizzly.com/products/2HP-Canister-Dust-Collector-with-Aluminum-Impeller-Polar-Bear-Series/G0548ZP

Just wondering what I can expect from it if I set up in a ducted system.

Thanks

It's the one you linked, minus the white paint.  IIRC it's a 6" inlet after you take the split off.  But the SDD inlet is a 5" so for all intents and purposes...it's 5".  It's moot when running 4" duct unless you plan on using a larger diameter main.  I used 4" throughout the entire system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, why cant you add 220v? I dont know where your main panel is located or how far from your shop it is, but if it has two open breaker slots then 220 is only about $50-100 in materials. I would do a little more digging on this. Post your situation and the group can discuss your options. I am no expert, but i did all the electric for my shop, so i can help a little. Im sure we have an electrician or two here too.

 

I wouldnt buy another 1.5hp dust collector. Certainly not for $1100. If you can vent outside, then i would set up a rudimentary separation system and do that. If you condition your space, or outside noise is a concern, then the SDD is probably the way to go. Your current problem is you have an expensive filter that is getting plugged within hours of use, i imagine. What does the interior of the wynn look like right now? You need separation to protect your filter's breathing ability. If your filter is choked, then your system is choked. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not spend 1K. on 1.5 HP single stage. I don't mean to be rude, but just do more research. My home built cyclone is a 3HP grizzly blower {7" intake} on an East Caroga cyclone [ 6" intake - 6" exit on bottom -7"opening on top to the blower ] . I run 6" lines to everything , metal ducting. I've got more in the ducts and fittings than the DC . I did get lucky , The 3HP Grizzly was a steal at an auction . This system for me is a beast , more than just OK . Same housing and impeller as the 2HP Grizzly , but I think the 7" intake upgrade is the key . That East Caroga cyclone w/7" on top was perfect for me . Blower, $220 , cyclone, $250 , two Clark Pro-Tura filters $275 , flex and fittings $75 . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of things. First, what are your expectations for DC? Are you just trying to make things more convenient for you? Are you just trying to clean up chips? Or are you trying to eliminate all dust everywhere?

If you are trying to eliminate all dust then keep in mind that 1) this is not a realistic goal even with an expensive and powerful cyclone, and 2) you are also going to need an air cleaner/filter. 

Second, I have to echo concerns you are being taken for a ride with a 1k quote for 220. First off if your walls in your shop are an issue, you could always run conduit on the outside of the wall. Not as aesthetically pleasing, but this is a shop and it is practical. Unless your shop is very far from your panel it really should not be more than a couple hundred to run a few outlets. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Randy

I have a 1.5 HP Oneida V1500 (120V) cyclone with a HEPA filter. It not only draws essentially all the dust and chips from my planer, jointer, router table, bandsaw, and lathe, but it essentially cleans the air because of the HEPA filter. I have rigid metal ducting with one main line down the center of my shop and 3 drops with gates at various points. I only use it with one machine at a time so that means I only have 1 gate open at a time also. I also use a ceiling mounted air cleaner which is on throughout the entire time I'm working in the shop. My shop is a few feet narrower than yours but longer. I ran the main line down the center the short way and, since all my tools are on wheels, I can move the tools close enough to the drops when I'm working and out of the way when I'm not using them.

This concept may not work for you but, as long as you have a higher quality cyclone with a HEPA filter and use it with one machine at a time,  I think it will work well. I upgraded to the V1500 about 2 years ago from an older Oneida cyclone. With the HEPA filter and the ceiling air cleaner, the air is very dust free. You may not want to spend the amount of money an Oneida V1500 would cost, but I'd check with Oneida, provide them the specs of your needs, and see what they say will work for you. You might be surprised.

Just wanted you to know that a high quality 1.5 HP 120v cyclone like the Oneida will do the job depending on how you run your lines and drops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Randy said:

I have a 1.5 HP Oneida V1500 (120V) cyclone with a HEPA filter. It not only draws essentially all the dust and chips from my planer, jointer, router table, bandsaw, and lathe, but it essentially cleans the air because of the HEPA filter. I have rigid metal ducting with one main line down the center of my shop and 3 drops with gates at various points. I only use it with one machine at a time so that means I only have 1 gate open at a time also. I also use a ceiling mounted air cleaner which is on throughout the entire time I'm working in the shop. My shop is a few feet narrower than yours but longer. I ran the main line down the center the short way and, since all my tools are on wheels, I can move the tools close enough to the drops when I'm working and out of the way when I'm not using them.

This concept may not work for you but, as long as you have a higher quality cyclone with a HEPA filter and use it with one machine at a time,  I think it will work well. I upgraded to the V1500 about 2 years ago from an older Oneida cyclone. With the HEPA filter and the ceiling air cleaner, the air is very dust free. You may not want to spend the amount of money an Oneida V1500 would cost, but I'd check with Oneida, provide them the specs of your needs, and see what they say will work for you. You might be surprised.

Just wanted you to know that a high quality 1.5 HP 120v cyclone like the Oneida will do the job depending on how you run your lines and drops.

Thanks for your post i'm looking hard at a 2hp Onida unit. I have 6 tools but will only have about 18 feet of hard line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Randy

@Chestnut I'm sure the 2HP (if it's a V Series) will work just fine for a one-man shop. If you buy from Oneida, they will help you figure out a plan for your ducting (at least they used to). I'm completely satisfied with the V1500, its efficiency, and the lack of dust anywhere in my shop. The HEPA filter really is great, but a little hard to clean out periodically. If it's the V Series get ready for an assembly process. It's not difficult because instructions are good, but it is a little involved; especially getting the motor up on top of the cyclone. It's a good idea to follow their advice and have someone help you with that part. I didn't and was sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's what I've done with a 1.5 HP 1200 com (advertised) delta 120 v dc machine with a canister filter and SDD.  I have three branches of 4" black sewer pipe hooked to an 8" jointer, a 10" cabinet saw, two band saws, a 19 x 38 drum sander and a 15" planner.  I have an Ivac blast gate on each machine with a minimum of flex pipe to several machines.  My longest run is 20' up through the ceiling and back down to the TS, the   Second run is 17' and the third is about the same.  I think the system works fine except there is always some dust left in the base of the TS cabinet. I'm happy with the performance and plan to add a router table to the system this year.  My thinking is that if I wanted to upgrade, I would increase the duct size before I upgraded the DC system.  I know this is all contrary to a lot of written and spoken wisdoms on the subject but it works fine in my opinion.

after.JPG

from the outside.jpeg

16.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Who's Online   3 Members, 0 Anonymous, 199 Guests (See full list)

  • Forum Statistics

    28877
    Total Topics
    390086
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    21813
    Total Members
    1529
    Most Online
    MarVer
    Newest Member
    MarVer
    Joined