bushwacked Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 sounds like me in the shop, except I would have ruined all the pretty wood Keep on keeping on, it looks great so far and I doubt any of the "happy mistakes" will be that noticeable anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dknapp34 Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 I'm enjoying the journal so far! I've been watching the guild videos as they come out and I'm thinking of making one myself. Not before Christmas though. Maybe Christmas 2020 at the rate I've been going lately. For now, I will just live vicariously through your build, Cliff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Yea Cliff, somedays it can be better to just shut the lights off and go back inside. It happens to everyone. The good thing with your sliding dovetail is it won't show because of the drawer front. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 3 hours ago, Chet said: ...somedays it can be better to just shut the lights off and go back inside. It happens to everyone... Yep been there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted November 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Got my back and upper divider pretty well finished. I need to slightly adjust the depth of the upper divider. I also sized my drawer fronts to almost perfectly match the width of the case. They are about 1/64th too proud, but I can't seem to dial my table saw in reliably. So I'm going to build a shooting board or something, or just sand them flush. Had to pivot on the drawer sides and backs due to the material being a lot more unstable and ugly the deeper I cut into my birdseye. Though I do have 8 drawer fronts that I can narrow down to the best 6, so I should be set there. Went to a sawmill today I've never been to. And it's closer to me, 25 min drive instead of 60. They have pretty good material there. And shockingly, cheaper than my other sawmill. I was happy paying $6.50/bf for walnut and $6/cherry. This place I went to today is $4.50/walnut, $4/cherry, $3.50/maple, and $2.90 on aromatic cedar. And that cedar is a good 8-10" wide and 5/4 stock. So I'm definitely going back there. Sadly, I feel the need to let the new maple boards acclimate, so I'm out of commission probably until Friday. I've decided to see if I can get curly cherry at 8" wide from bell forest for the 2nd jewelry box. Maybe pick up 20 or 30 bf. While I was at the saw mill today I found this cool piece of walnut in the off cut rack. It's 12" wide and 32 or so inches long, and since it was only $17 I had no probably picking it up. I'm hoping I can get the 6 drawer fronts for the 2nd box from this in a satisfactory way. First I'll needs to dump a ton of epoxy in it. If I can't get a good layout on the drawers then I'll save this piece for something else. Side one Side two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted December 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 My drawers were all cut to width, though there was a moment where I got super confused and thought some tiger maple that I had stacked up next to the box were my drawer fronts and they hadn't been cut to size. In fact I went through the process of setting up the cut again and getting my final size before realizing what the heck was going on. Oops. At these stage I thought they looked pretty good. There is some small chip out on the pieces that I can't seem to stop. I think it has to do with the figure of the wood. There are also clear areas where the table saw is not cutting dead square. Which blows mind mind because I spent hours setting that stupid thing up in an attempt to get it to stop being stupid and I think it lasted all of one day. This is a recurring theme that we will analyze later. I cut my test piece and dialed it in pretty quickly. I test fit all the drawer fronts at once and discoverd that they were too tall. Also I still haven't completely addressed that upper divider sticking out but that is ok. I got a lot of little things to do. And my final front was above the top of the box. I finally realized why this happened. I've been using a Kreg Miter System for a couple of years now and all the sudden the ruler tape I put on it is no longer accurate. It's off just a little bit, so I ended up cutting the base and the two sides to the wrong sizes before I realized it. So I trimmed my pieces, which went a little poorly. I trimmed too much. But I figured with spacers it wouldn't be horrid and I can cut a deeper dado in the top font so it covers the gap. Though I will have to trim the height of the entire case to compensate. I jointed, planed and cut my drawer sides and backs to width since the saw was set for that size anyway. The planer managed to eat one of the boards, which is clearly my fault since the book says don't put less than 12 inch long stock in there and these were 8.5. I cut the dado on the upper front. Since I have so much trouble truly getting my saw dialed in on stuff, I chose to use the shoulder plane to finish it up. This was before I fixed the blade, it was nicking the side wall. My final test fit. There are definitely some issues with the edges cut by the table saw here and there. I'm not sure yet if it's enough that I have to find a way to fix it. I've also noticed that my wood has moved slightly. Some fronts are either thicker than others or slightly warped/twisted so it looks that way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeslayer Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 Looking great so far Cliff, thats going to be one beautiful case. there are a lot of issues to be dealt with but i see nothing that can't be fixed by someone with your talent. it does drive me nuts on my projects when little things that need to be fixed pop up, it seems like i can work for hours and not get anywhere. any idea on what is wrong with the TS? and what have you done so far to address the problem? lots of knowledge here, maybe the forum folks have some ideas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted December 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 14 minutes ago, treeslayer said: Looking great so far Cliff, thats going to be one beautiful case. there are a lot of issues to be dealt with but i see nothing that can't be fixed by someone with your talent. it does drive me nuts on my projects when little things that need to be fixed pop up, it seems like i can work for hours and not get anywhere. any idea on what is wrong with the TS? and what have you done so far to address the problem? lots of knowledge here, maybe the forum folks have some ideas. Thank you sir. Whats wrong with the table saw- Both steel wings are bent and cannot be made to be flat. I tried many an hour on that. I thought of getting cast iron wings but just seems like a waste on this saw The fence is not flat. So you can joint a piece of wood to 90 degrees, test it with woodpecker square then move the piece down the fence as if you were ripping it and you will see gaps open up along the fence. The fence does not seems to want to stay square and possibly went out of parallel The riving knife has recently started sitting slightly offset of the blade, so that if you want to cut a board, you need to reach to the blade and gently push the riving knife back into alignment as you are moving the board. I don't believe the cast iron is flat anymore. It burns on anything walnut level or harder. And on maple and hickory it will stop the blade. That includes using a Freud Industrial Rip Blade and ripping the wood, which to me should be the easiest cut. That might cover it. So it feels like I gotta run through a series of setup steps every day and even then the wings will still be bent and the cast iron might not be flat. I'm honestly just trying to ignore it and compensate for it's lack of quality with hand tools or whatever else. I've had this thing 2 or 3 years. It was just a temporary $600ish thing til I could afford a Sawstop. Of course I didn't start saving for a Sawstop until 2 months ago and only got like $650, less since the stock market just imploded Friday afternoon. Supposed to be growing my money, not reducing! Each time I run into another problem I start to think of grabbing a Grizzly cabinet saw as another temporary solution. Honestly that is what I should have went with to start, but I was dumb and just wanted to get away from the insanely dangerous 1980's Craftsman I was using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post treeslayer Posted December 3, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 YIKES !!! man to make the great stuff you've posted here on a TS like that is a miracle and a testament to your skill. i think i would sell a kidney and get a new saw pronto, i hate stuff that doesn't work. take it to the scrap dealer and see how much it weighs 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 Man Cliff i wish i could tell ya something to ease the pain of a frustrating table saw. My best advice is don't do another stop gap you'll just have similar if not the same troubles. Save for your your sawstop or w/e your looking at. There are grizzly saws that you could get that would last you forever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 I agree with nut. Why the lust for the SS compared to others like PM and Grizz? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, K Cooper said: I agree with nut. Why the lust for the SS compared to others like PM and Grizz? Careful Coop remember the 2nd commandment. Thou shalt not speak poorly about sawstop. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan G Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 Cliff looking great so far. Don’t let’s your tooling discourage you. The fact you are able to build these pieces with the issues of your table saw is a testiment to your skill and determination. As frustrating as it is, I would agree with others to just keep saving until you get enough for the saw you want. Not another stop gap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 Looking at your work, I would have never realized how wonky you saw is. But like people said above, don't by a stop gap tool. I speak from a recent purchase I made where I came close to settling for a step down from what I really wanted. I know I would have regretted it in short order. You try to convince yourself that you will be happy, which you will, but only for a while. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 15 hours ago, K Cooper said: Why the lust for the SS compared to others like PM and Grizz? I've never understood that either Coop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, Llama said: I've never understood that either Coop. I've always heard that SS is a well-made machine, in addition to the special safety feature. But after having to opportunity to see the PCS and tge Contractor saw in a Woodcraft recently, I was less than impressed. Might just be a poorly assembled set of store display models, but neither materials, nor fit and finish appeared any better than other saws of the same class. Personally, I don't trust the circuitry to be reliable in such an application, and I've been an automation engineer for a couple of decades. Electronics WILL eventually fail, and IMO they provide a false sense of security. I am not a fan of any gadget that purports to remove the user's responsibility for their own safety. Don't even get me started on the idea of self-driving vehicles... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted December 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 15 hours ago, K Cooper said: I agree with nut. Why the lust for the SS compared to others like PM and Grizz? 14 minutes ago, wtnhighlander said: I've always heard that SS is a well-made machine, in addition to the special safety feature. But after having to opportunity to see the PCS and tge Contractor saw in a Woodcraft recently, I was less than impressed. Might just be a poorly assembled set of store display models, but neither materials, nor fit and finish appeared any better than other saws of the same class. Personally, I don't trust the circuitry to be reliable in such an application, and I've been an automation engineer for a couple of decades. Electronics WILL eventually fail, and IMO they provide a false sense of security. I am not a fan of any gadget that purports to remove the user's responsibility for their own safety. Don't even get me started on the idea of self-driving vehicles... I'll be honest, it's 100% the safety feature for me. I believe there is a random chance for everything to go wrong. The universe skews towards chaos. You can do things right 1000 times and mess up once and lose a hand. You can do things right every time, and something unexpected happens and you lose a hand. As a woodworker, I can make the safest cuts I can. I can be diligent and careful and use the correct technique. I can make sure my machine is set up correctly. I can even position myself so if I get kickback, I won't get my face dented by the piece. For all the times that those things I do will not stop me from being hurt - there is an extra layer of protection there in a saw that won't cut you. And if that mechanism on the saw that works 100% every time until it doesn't, however many times that might take - it's a fraction of a fraction. So my own safety measures + the saw safety measures will hopefully = Safe. On a long enough time line, all eventualities exist, including failure of the system, catastrophic explosion - I mean who knows. All I can do is be the safest I can and have a tool that has all the modern safety features that it can have. With the stakes being my hands and fingers, I owe it to myself to take that last precautionary step to minimize my exposure to danger. I was going to say.. hey I need my hands to do my job, right - cause I really can't be a programmer without them. But now that I think of it, I don't know anyone that can do their job well without hands and fingers. So I am not special in this regard. As for the saw itself, the reports I've seen far and wide on this forum and others is that Sawstop is a great machine. On par with Powermatic. At a very similar price point to Powermatic. So if I like Powermatic at that price point, I LOVE Sawstop at that price point. And if I'm going to spend over $2000, then I'm getting Powermatic or Sawstop - and it's going to be the last table saw I ever get. Grizzly is great, but I'm well aware that they do have a higher percentage of lemons than the better brands. I am in fact, a proud owner of one of Eric's lemons, which took me about 8 months of tinkering to get locked in well enough that I've not had to touch it for a year. I definitely intend to get a Grizzly 20" planer at some point, but the table saw I've decided that since the ideal solution with a great safety feature is on the market, I'd be silly to invest in a Grizzly. But like I said the amount of problems I have makes me question this decision because I'm guessing it will take me another ten months to save up enough for the saw I want (though if the tax plan gets through, my stocks - the only effective way of saving money I am able to stick with - should go up quite a bit!) whereas I could probably get a Grizzly by April at the latest. And unfortunately saving is the only way I can do this, I am currently paying off my credit credit cards on track to have them gone in 13 months (with my wife's cards awaiting payoff after that) - part of my five year plan to be debt free and sell this house and buy one with a 4 car garage or space to build a huge shop. So I can't sacrifice one goal to another, which means slowly saving money is my only option. Which is strange because I'm not a saver. I'm a free thinking blow all my money and worry about tomorrow tomorrow kind of guy. @wtnhighlander I absolutely believe all electronics will fail eventually, at least so long as they are made of inferior material by people who are far from perfect themselves. But the risk is no more than counting on your brakes on your car or your alarm clock to wake you up. It's probably going to happen but it may not. Self driving cars - I believe in completely. It's programming. I understand programming. Programmers are not perfect, but that is why you have QA. If we, as a society, can replace all cars on the road and they are 90% safer than people driving themselves then we owe it to ourselves to do it. Automation will reduce traffic accidents. But then people will have something to point at instead of themselves for the accident, which will cause another level of stupidity. This level of automation is the next step in how we will live our lives. It's inevitable. We'll have robots performing surgery, we'll explore the solar system with robots, we'll use nanobots to destroy cancer cells. I'm totally in favor of it, it's just simply what comes next. Much like the guy driving a horse carriage had to look at cars in disgust cause he'll be out of a job. Can't stop the progress but you can get on board and ride the train! But also, under no circumstances will I ever be shoving my hand into the blade of a Sawstop because it's "Safe." I'm sure there are people that do but they are not bright. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted December 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 I kind of hate Sundays. I know I'm going to sleep late, go to breakfast with Wife, maybe go shopping or hit a movie. I'm lucky to get like 2 hours in the shop and then here comes Monday to ruin all my fun. Oh well. Started on the dovetails for the drawer sides. Made the 7 degree jig, cut the ends of my drawer sides to be square and set up the bandsaw. I gotta figure out a better zero clearance situation with this. the pieces kept getting caught. Also I don't understand how that throat plate adjusted itself down below the cast iron. I was too lazy to adjust it. It went pretty well. I ended up using the bandsaw to remove a majority of the waste. I just cut directly on my scribe line for the ends and nibbled the waste in between. I think I actually made 18 drawer sides which is more than I need. Actually now that I think on it. I cut dovetails into the back pieces too. Wow. Good thing I left them super long and I can just cut the end off. Oh and special appearance here by Neil Degrass Tyson, giving a lecture about Quantum Mechanics. I know it looks like he is dancing, but that is because he's so expressive. Cleaned them up. This was my first and probably my worst. There really isn't a lot of cleanup with the bandsaw technique that Marc demonstrated. About 60 seconds of chiseling once you get into the groove. And since they are half blind, if you screw up a face, you can point that inward so it's hidden. And now I'm basically mostly out of commission until Friday or Saturday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, Cliff said: And now I'm basically mostly out of commission until Friday or Saturday. Awe BOO!!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted December 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 36 minutes ago, Chestnut said: Awe BOO!!! lol Don't I know it. Losing two hours per day to the work drive kills my productivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 13 minutes ago, Cliff said: Don't I know it. Losing two hours per day to the work drive kills my productivity. Your in IT can't you just work from home? 2 hours that's rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted December 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 56 minutes ago, Chestnut said: Your in IT can't you just work from home? 2 hours that's rough. I can occasionally. And I'm going to ask soon if I can move to work at home on Fridays cause it's a half day anyway and we rarely accomplish anything. We are in the midst of a 4 year project to completely overhaul the entire system. Go from mainframe to sql based, etc. So every day is a damn adventure. We spend probably 1/3rd the time standing at a white board architecting solutions to insane problems, then we split up the work and go do it. So the collaboration is pretty handy. Plus this is a 106 year old company that literally *just* allowed people to dress down to business casual. Like before I came it was suit and tie. So they are pretty conservative and work at home is strictly managed. Still better than my previous job for the US Arm where I had to get permission from the commanding Major of my section to take my laptop off the base. It rarely happened. Besides Friday - I work 9 hour days and got the drive, which means I got about 3-4 hours at home after work to cook, wife time, get whatever needs to be done done. So I usually get maybe 20-30 mins in the shop after work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, Cliff said: I can occasionally. And I'm going to ask soon if I can move to work at home on Fridays cause it's a half day anyway and we rarely accomplish anything. We are in the midst of a 4 year project to completely overhaul the entire system. Go from mainframe to sql based, etc. So every day is a damn adventure. We spend probably 1/3rd the time standing at a white board architecting solutions to insane problems, then we split up the work and go do it. So the collaboration is pretty handy. Plus this is a 106 year old company that literally *just* allowed people to dress down to business casual. Like before I came it was suit and tie. So they are pretty conservative and work at home is strictly managed. Still better than my previous job for the US Arm where I had to get permission from the commanding Major of my section to take my laptop off the base. It rarely happened. Besides Friday - I work 9 hour days and got the drive, which means I got about 3-4 hours at home after work to cook, wife time, get whatever needs to be done done. So I usually get maybe 20-30 mins in the shop after work. Hey steps forward. I'll probably never be able to work from home. All the software i use requires liscences and most of them were written in the stone age before the Internet existing so doing liscences over the internet just does not happen. Heck there is some software that requires a fob plugged into a serial port to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, Chestnut said: Heck there is some software that requires a fob plugged into a serial port to work. I’m pretty much an IT kind of guy myself so I can sympathize with ya! What’s a fob? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted December 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Chestnut said: Hey steps forward. I'll probably never be able to work from home. All the software i use requires liscences and most of them were written in the stone age before the Internet existing so doing liscences over the internet just does not happen. Heck there is some software that requires a fob plugged into a serial port to work. I did work at home for about 6-7 years before these last two jobs. It was a huge adjustment. I can't even fathom software that requires a fob. Nor can I fathom the use of a serial port anymore. Do your printers use parallel ports? heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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