Stickly / Shaker hybrid display cabinet

[Von]

On 5/18/2024 at 7:33 PM, wtnhighlander said:

There is a strong 3/8" difference in the diagonals now, and no way is it going to rack back into shape. I'm considering my options for going forward.

Just to poke at the assumption - you got it out of square putting on the face frame, what makes you so sure you can't rack it back?

[wtnhighlander]

3 hours ago, Von said:

Just to poke at the assumption - you got it out of square putting on the face frame, what makes you so sure you can't rack it back?

The face frame is 2" wide, glued solidly, and has splines is strategic spots. I'm pretty certain something would break before it shifted back into proper alignment. 

But I'll certainly give it a nudge, just to be sure.

[gee-dub]

Having this happen is disappointing but some variation of it happens to us all at some point.  I normally make my inset door and drawer fronts a tight fit or a bit oversize.  This lets me fit them to the opening.  I agree that at this scale a slightly out of square door made to fit the opening would be pretty invisible unless you point it out.  You may need a little more generous reveal to allow the hinges to work correctly.  You can also taper an edge of the door frame, front to back, if the swing is a problem at a given location. On smaller cabinets I tend to go for a smaller reveal and will taper the edge opposite the hinges as a normal part of the door fitting.

[Von]

On 5/18/2024 at 11:28 PM, wtnhighlander said:

The face frame is 2" wide, glued solidly, and has splines is strategic spots. I'm pretty certain something would break before it shifted back into proper alignment. 

But I'll certainly give it a nudge, just to be sure.

Ah, the face frame is out of square too, not just the carcass. Yeah, I see now. Never mind.

[curlyoak]

If you can feel certain it is out of square because of the face frame, then I would remove the face frame. A pain in the ass. And got to be careful of the edge of the glue joint. Maybe remove most of it in some manner then the last 1/16th with a router and straight edge...Drastic stuff like that needs to be slept on with a lot of inner conversations. There is a lot of very good work up to this point. I think with a lot of thought and effort it could be removed. The underlying work is worth the effort. I feel that is the main question...

[wtnhighlander]

Any opinions regarding joint strength if I can manage to saw the face frame off through the glue line, plane the surfaces, then reattach it with just the long grain glue joint, no splines?

[Von]

Seems like plenty of glue surface.

I'd be tempted to add biscuits to replace the splines but that's just for alignment.

[curlyoak]

On 5/20/2024 at 6:41 AM, wtnhighlander said:

saw the face frame off through the glue line

The saw will not make a good glue joint. Saw it and leave the glue line and a touch more. Then a straight fluted router bit with a straight edge could make a better glue joint.

If the joint is well milled, then glue alone will do it.

[Chestnut]

On 5/18/2024 at 6:33 PM, wtnhighlander said:

1. Build the doors to fit the rhomboid openings. The scale of the case makes it all but impossible to see the corners aren't 90*.

What style of doors are you making? Overlay? Inset?

Either way make the doors oversize and trim. For a large opening 3/8" difference on the diagonal doesn't sound like much. None of my inset doors are square, not a single one I've made ever. I make them all over size and trim to fit. I've had a 1/2" difference in width on an 18" door disappear.

[Coop]

On 5/21/2024 at 8:40 AM, Chestnut said:

What style of doors are you making? Overlay? Inset?

Either way make the doors oversize and trim. For a large opening 3/8" difference on the diagonal doesn't sound like much. None of my inset doors are square, not a single one I've made ever. I make them all over size and trim to fit. I've had a 1/2" difference in width on an 18" door disappear.

+1

[wtnhighlander]

Inset doors. I had always planned to make a little oversized and trim to fit for a clean reveal, just wasn't sure if that much out of plumb might interfere with hinge action.

[wtnhighlander]

Just keeping this thread alive. Many mornings, before goung to work, I will spend 15 minutes or so in the shop. Limited to moderate noise levels because others are still sleeping, I am slowly working the door parts into shape, using my friends, Bruce and Jack.

Bruce chews through wood like a shark, but is far quieter than my DW735. Jack is great for the cleanup. I'll probably take a pass or two through the Dewalt, to ensure uniform thickness, but this method gets close, and helps me develop my hand plane skills, so win-win.

[wtnhighlander]

While mulling over the options I have for dealing with the out-of-square box, I ran through the 'Failure Analysis' process I use often at work. The conclusion I came to is that several factors contributed to the error, most of them related to my choice of loose tenon joinery for the face frame. This was my first attempt at the technique, using a router to cut the mortises. Although the parts were all a good fit, gluing the entire thing in one pass meant there were twice as many points of 'slippage' as would be present with integral tenons, or if I had glued the tenons into one side first and allowed them to dry before final assembly. Coupled with my inadequate preparation for moving the larg-ish piece around in my awkwardly limited space to accomodate the clamps, resulted in some uneven pressure. I could have corrected this had I done the diagonal measure test right away, but after wrestling through a difficult glue-up, I completely forgot.

To those who may read this, beware the pitfalls of extensive, complex glue-ups! Break them down into smaller steps whenever possible.

[Ronn W]

On 5/29/2024 at 5:12 PM, wtnhighlander said:

To those who may read this, beware the pitfalls of extensive, complex glue-ups! Break them down into smaller steps whenever possible.

Very true.  My wife is a good helper for complex glue- ups.  Even though I could have done some glue-ups with her help, I often break the process down into more manageble steps.

[wtnhighlander]

My less than skillful resaw by hand left a huge gouge in one of the door panel parts. Here I am using tge jankiest router sled ever, to make a flat pocket for a filler piece.

Cleaned it with the chisel, then glued in the filler. When that is dry, I'll plane it flat and skin over it with some thin slices taken from other parts of the project. This is why I never toss the scraps before the project is complete! 

[Chet]

On 6/1/2024 at 8:53 AM, wtnhighlander said:

This is why I never toss the scraps before the project is complete!

Same here.  Nothing gets sorted or tossed in the burn bin until the project is in its final place.

[wtnhighlander]

Even after adfing a shelf to the linen closet, and tightening or replacing all the gutter screws on the back side of the house, I still got some shop time this afternoon.

Experimented with a curve for the bottom rail.

Blue parts will be cut away.

Then I worked on the upper door frames. Dicided to go with bridles over M&T.

Still oversized, they will be trimmed for an inset fit. Hard to see in this image, but the top rails are wider to allow the curve from tge bottom rail to be carried through the tops of the doors.

Sorry for the overly dramatic 'Alfred Hitchcock' lighting. Just no room in the shed to move away from the window...

 

[Coop]

Ironically, the strips of light are about the same width as the strips on the back panel

[wtnhighlander]

Oooooohhh.... walnut!

Don't raise your expectatins too much. I just needed to pre-finish the door panels to avoid any finish lines if the panels shrank after assembly. The 'finish' line is still over the horizon.

[wtnhighlander]

Question for the hive mind: The carcase has frame & panel sides, so the top rail grain is horizontal, as is the front face frame. Anyone see a problem with gluing the top moulding on all 3 sides? 

[Tpt life]

I believe this is commonly done, due to the narrowness of the parts involved. Even wide drawer bottoms are often center glued. 

[pkinneb]

 

Great looking panels!

I agree I don't see an issue with this. The only thing that comes to mind is if there is a top you would not want it attached to the molding if it needs to move.

[wtnhighlander]

Some redneck engineering and random hardware helped me size the cabinet doors as a single unit.

They had to be tapered a bit on the outer stiles, because of the slightly out of square carcase I mentioned earlier.

I cat an arc in the bottom apron, using saw, chisel, and spokeshave.

Still needs a little sanding, but turned out ok.

There is a matching arc spanning the upper rails of the glass door fames, kind of hard to see in this photo.

At the end of the day, a woodworker's happiness =

[Ronn W]

Looks good. ho wthe curve in the railscompletments the tapered feet.

[wtnhighlander]

Did a trial with the hinges, to see how they look.

These will work nicely. However, the heat by 8:00 am was already driving me to rush, and I drilled into the wrong edge of one door before I realized it. Argh.

At least these aren't moticed hinges, and the edges where the doors meet are still a bit oversized. If the hole isn't planed away during final fitting, it should pass as a small knot or wormhole.

I'll be glad when cooler weather returns....