video: Sharpening My Way

[Tom King]

 

[Tom King]

I don't test the edge when I finish normally.  At the end of this, I panicked realizing I didn't have a way to show that it was actually sharp.  The shaving hair test is really not much of a test.  It would probably have shaved hair after the 3,000 stone, or at least after the 6,000 stone.

This is just my second video with this camera setup.  Hopefully, I'll get better in presentation.

 

[Coop]

Cool video Tom. I was thinking that you were going to have to reduce the lightening due to the glare off of the blade. Now THAT'S sharp!

[mat60]

Like the video also Tom..I need to get myself more stones..Thanks for the info.

[Woodenskye]

Tom, that is a great setup for sharpening.  I probably should invest in more stones as well to fill in the gaps I have.

[Tom King]

I do this stuff for a living.  There is no real need for a hobbyist to spend extra money to save a little time. Three stones would probably be a plenty if saving a little time didn't really matter.

 I remember one job we did, working on an old floor, where we had to remove about 35 cu. ft. with chisels around the edges. Think about a block of wood the size of a sheet of plywood a foot thick taken apart piece by piece with chisels. A job like that, where chisels were sharpened hundreds of times showed me where the weak points were in my system.  Time mattered for that.

I felt like I was working in slow motion in the video, and kind of fumble fingered by thinking about what I was going to say instead of what I was doing, so it seemed a little slow, and clumsy to me.  Probably not really bad for taking a chisel that had just finished getting paint up off of a hard brick floor, up through super sharp though.  I wish I had done a practice run before making the video.

[JohnDi]

Great video .

 

keep 'em coming!

[Tom King]

If you are reading this thread, and have questions, there is more information that directly applies in another thread on these forums.  Here's a link to it:   

 

[Jim DaddyO]

Everything takes twice as long if you are filming it....lol.  Nice presentation and results!

[Ryan Grondin]

Very nice video... nice set up... I like it. Thanks for sharing!

[socoj2]

Is there a primer on what to get started with to get started in sharpening? 

[Tpt life]

2 minutes ago, socoj2 said:

Is there a primer on what to get started with to get started in sharpening? 

No, there is a primer for each of four or five systems of thought. 

[Llama]

2 hours ago, C Shaffer said:

four or five

And they are all wrong!

[Tom King]

socoj2,  I'll type out a long response tonight listing the pros and cons, and methods of the different systems.  I've done all of them for long enough to understand each.  No time this morning.

[Isaac]

6 hours ago, Tom King said:

socoj2,  I'll type out a long response tonight listing the pros and cons, and methods of the different systems.  I've done all of them for long enough to understand each.  No time this morning.

Tom,

I hope you don't mind a few questions here, I'll number them to make it a little easier.

1. For how do you handle sharpening wider things like blades for hand planes? A lot of those get to be about as wide or wider than the stones I commonly see. Do you use the stone at a diagonal?
2. Also where do you buy the stones from?
3. What do you think about the two sided style combination stones.

To give you some context, I'm a hobbyist interested in sharpening chisels, plane blades, and turning tools. I'm willing to make a good investment, but don't need to go berserk with the full professional set up. Is there an option that you'd recommend I start with that can easily be expanded if I want to invest more later?

[Tom King]

Isaac,  Plane irons are sharpened on those same stones, with the exact same setup. Typically for a plane that's already setup like I want it, I never go back any coarser to start with than the 6,000 grit stone. The chisel in that video had just come from getting paint up off of a hard brick floor.   The stones are about 3 inches wide, but it doesn't matter much if an iron or chisel runs off the edge of a stone.  I'll give more details in my long response later.

My current favorite supplier is Tools from Japan.  It's a one man show, with some help from his Sister, and run directly from Japan, when he's there.  For those reasons, don't expect Amazon like shipping times.  His selection, and price can't be beaten though, for waterstones.

I owned a Norton 4000/8000 combination stone for years.   They work fine, and can be most economical.  When I was using that stone, I didn't have the efficient setup that I have now, and flattening was more of a hassle.  The reason the flattening time mattered with a combination stone was that you only have one face of a particular grit to work with, so flattening needs to take place twice as often in comparison to having a stone that you can use both sides off, for the same grit.

Turning tools don't need to be as sharp as chisels and plane irons, so a good grinding wheel is all you need for turning tools.  Having super sharp hand woodworking tools is the threshold you have to get past to be able to do really fine hand work, so it absolutely matters for that.

The longer reply I'm planning will answer more of the selection questions.  There is no one correct answer that doesn't depend on your method of work.  I'll get into that.  For instance, I wouldn't use the system in the video if I didn't have a sink with running water that I could leave set up, and not have to worry about wasting water.

[Isaac]

Thanks Tom, I've been working on my sharpening process for the past few months. I've been tuning up some hand planes and you've given me some great ideas already. I'll watch for your follow up replies.

[Tom King]

I didn't remember we were having company coming to stay the rest of this week, along with their horses.  It might be this weekend before I have time to finish writing it.

[shaneymack]

27 minutes ago, Tom King said:

I didn't remember we were having company coming to stay the rest of this week, along with their horses.  It might be this weekend before I have time to finish writing it.

Company AND their horses. Now that sounds like a heck of a party ! 

[wdwerker]

I am picturing a yard full of trucks and horse trailers !

[Tom King]

We have plenty of space for trucks and trailers.  The trouble is as the number of our personal horses has dropped, that leaves empty stalls in the barn, and it's kind of like a vacuum.  It's always all women and girls too.  

[Isaac]

Tom, no explanation needed, I appreciate your help.

[Tom King]

I'll sneak in a little at the time when I can.  Right now, all the girls are doing the cooking, so I'm getting out of the way.  I'll just stick to the eating part.

Type of stone choice matters with what method of work you intend to use.  The first choice is solely by hand, or with a jig.  If you're going to hone by hand alone, harder stones will serve you better......probably.  Harder stones, like Shaptons don't damage as easily as softer, faster cutting stones like Sigma's.

 What is lost by the hard stones is not so much speed, but feel for when you're done.  I depend on the feel to know when to stop.  That feel is when it feels like the cutting edges is starting to slice down into the surface of the stone.  You can feel them cutting, even with some ceramic stones harder than Shaptons, but you have to have a better feel than I do because I just can't tell when to stop on them.

A lot of people feel for a "wire edge" raised on the back.  I never do, just because I was self-taught, and never knew you were supposed to raise a wire edge until I read about it years later.  I never saw the need, and to raise a wire edge, you have spent unnecessary time on the stone.

The 10k Sigma Select II I bought off the classified section of another woodworking forums came from a well followed, and well respected sharpening stone guru who praises the by hand alone method of honing.  That stone still has some gouge marks in it that it came with a few years ago, and I use it almost daily.

Sharpening by hand is faster......for this time....because you don't waste time putting the tool in a jig.

I sharpened by hand for probably 30 years after spending the first few using an Eclipse jig, just because I thought it was faster, and of course I needed to do the "be a man" thing and sharpen by hand.

I got edges sharp just fine by hand.  I finally came to the realization that I was always chasing some angle.  You grind the bevel, and then hone it, using the hollow grind as a helper in keeping it at the right angle on the stone.  Then you put a micro-bevel on it to make sure the very cutting edge got what it needed.  This works just fine for the first few sharpenings, but usually you end up with several different micro-bevels, and what you started out at 30 degrees has become 31, 32, 33, and so on until who knows where you end up.

One guru recommends honing by hand to a convex bevel.  I think it's just because that's what you end up with a lot of times.

 I found that I had to go to the grinder a lot more often, to get back to a starting point again, when I was honing by hand, than since I've gone back to using a jig.  Since using a jig again, none of my plane irons have been put to a grinder in a couple of years, at least, and chisels only if they were used for something other than cutting wood.  I have a fast grinder too- a high speed grinder with a CBN wheel, which takes seconds to grind a bevel, but I prefer not to put steel to grinder unless I need to remove a lot of steel, as in taking care of a chunk taken out of an edge by hitting a nail for example. The chisel in the video had just been used to get paint droppings up off of a modern brick floor, but still didn't need to go to the grinder.

 

Without going into more details, and examples of honing by hand alone, I'll skip ahead to using a jig next time.

[derekcohen]

Tom, thank you for your video. It is interesting - very different from my own preference, and no doubt it works for you. 

A few things leapt out at me ..

Firstly, you use a lot of stones. I was struck by your comment that you purchased a 3000 stone to go between your 1000 and 6000. Now I often go 1000 to 13000 (when the micro bevel is "micro"), and use a 6000 to bridge the gap when the micro gets larger. So going 1000-3000 raises my eyebrows. An extra step that I would consider superfluous.

Secondly, you use a honing guide. As guides go, I like the simple Eclipse - used one for many years. Ironically, while I predominantly freehand all blades, I have every honing guide known to man! Fascinating creatures. I do use one when honing BU plane blades. Anyway, the point I wanted to make is a honing guide is suited to create a secondary micro bevel, and not hone a full face. Honing a full face extends both effort and time. It is very difficult to do, because a minute change of angle means that you re-do everything. Now in your video I saw the bevel growing and growing. When I hone a micro secondary bevel on BU plane blade, it takes no more than a few strokes on each stone. Your efforts went so far beyond this, and the secondary bevel was very large (the last occasion I looked it had covered half the bevel face).

As one hones a greater area of steel (such as a full bevel face), so one needs more stones to do so. The incremental steps between grits becomes smaller. When the focus is a micro bevel (in its true sense), then you can use just two stones, and it should not require more than a stroke or two each. I get done in under 30". 

This is a finished edge on a 1" chisel ..

Sharpening threads lead to controversy as everyone has an opinion. I always say do what works for you. Here I add some contrasts since there are many beginners reading, and they need to question why they do what they do.

Here is my sharpening system ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/UltimateGrindingSharpeningSetUp.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Eric.]

I don't know, Derek...occasionally you have to regrind that entire bevel in order to re-establish the micro-bevel.  So I'm not sure which takes longer in the long run, sharpening full-face every time or regrinding now and then.  Unless you have a severely damaged edge or you're using super-slow cutting stones, even a full-face takes very little time, in my experience.  Ten or twenty strokes can be hammered out in five or ten seconds, and if you need more strokes than that, you should have dropped a stone grit or two.

I used to sharpen with micro-bevels and went back to sharpening full-face.  I find it simplifies my sharpening process, which ultimately makes it faster.  However, I only use three stones, 1000-4000-8000, and a DiaFlat.  I can have a damaged edge chisel back to sharp in a minute or so if I'm hauling ass, or a touch up done in fifteen seconds.  I do use the Veritas jigs and it takes longer to get the blades locked in than it does to sharpen them.