Here's my thought

[Brendon_t]

Very well, it is possible. 

I personally don't see the value in jigging other machines to do what there is a readily available, cost effective option for but,  I'm just me.  Carry on. 

[Eric.]

Yeah certainly can be accomplished doing things like that.  Not sure why anyone would want to.  I'd quit woodworking if I had to mill like that.  Like Mike said, jointer and planer are the no-brainer early purchases people should be making.  They do nasty grunt work and they do it well.  I'd put the tablesaw in the number one slot instead of the bandsaw, and the bandsaw and router table would be four and five.  The "Big Five" as I call them...every serious hobbyist needs them...unless you're straight looney-toon Neanderman with your five head and scraped knuckles.

[Cochese]

2 minutes ago, Brendon_t said:

Very well, it is possible. 

I personally don't see the value in jigging other machines to do what there is a readily available, cost effective option for but,  I'm just me.  Carry on. 

That's the beauty of woodworking, everyone can bring something different to the table.

 

[Brendon_t]

Just now, Cochese said:

That's the beauty of woodworking, everyone can bring something different to the table.

 

I just don't see the value. I'm totally on board with innovation and using available things to solve a problem.   To me, it's on par with building a jig, using a chisel, to sharpen my pencils, instead of getting a pencil sharpener. 

[Cochese]

2 minutes ago, Brendon_t said:

I just don't see the value. I'm totally on board with innovation and using available things to solve a problem.   To me, it's on par with building a jig, using a chisel, to sharpen my pencils, instead of getting a pencil sharpener. 

I used to be that way on pretty much all aspects of my life. My career taught me that I needed to embrace alternate ways of thinking, to at least keep them available as options. I look at stuff Wandel does and wonder if it's absolutely brilliant or batshit crazy. Probably both. But I'll tuck away the resource as I never know when I can adapt something from it.

The planer edge sled works way better than I ever imagined it could. I'm glad I have my jointer, but if for some reason it ever goes down in the middle of a project, I have a proven way of not letting it trip me up.

[Eric.]

4 minutes ago, Cochese said:

I'm glad I have my jointer, but if for some reason it ever goes down in the middle of a project, I have a proven way of not letting it trip me up.

Put the project on hold for two months while you wait for the Powermatic Black Friday sale? 

[Cochese]

5 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Put the project on hold for two months while you wait for the Powermatic Black Friday sale? 

Lol. I'm pretty much at the point of no upgrades until a new shop happens. I've pushed this one to the limit.

[Immortan D]

Edges can be jointed very easily with hand planes. I think it's the easiest thing one can do with hand planes, even with the cheap ones.

[wtnhighlander]

Please explain how you can face joint a board with a router table. 

Easier with small boards, but ...

[AstroDave]

a pain in the ass without the right tool

[Brendon_t]

5 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

Easier with small boards, but ...

 

This just kind of reinforced my original thoughts on it. It's just not scalable.  If someone is going to sled a board over a router and get a crappy surface, might as well butcher it with hand planes and be done in half the time.

[collinb]

On 1/23/2016 at 9:19 AM, Eric. said:

Back to the subject...

No, a router bit cannot replace a jointer for the reason that Brian mentioned...doesn't help you to get a flat face and that's 99% of a jointer's usefulness.  A straight edge and circular saw can get you a straight edge if need be.  The jointer is for faces, it just happens to be a convenient way to straighten an edge as well while you're already there flattening the face.  So unless you find an 8" router bit and a huge router table the shape of an aircraft carrier...

PS...Home Depot lumber was flat once...a long time ago...it's no longer flat by the time you buy it.  Flat"ish" is the best you'll do.  Jointers are essential tools.  They're the very first step in every woodworking project.  I'll never understand why people are so reluctant to buy a jointer.  Everyone is cool with plunking down the cash for a table saw...but what good is a straight rip on a twisted board?

Your local HD may have worse wood than mine.  Still, I do have to cull it. I pass on anything with any twist, bend, bow, or cup.  That means about 50% gets set aside. No sense in paying good money for bad wood.  (And it makes me wonder why the sell such junk.)

[Janello]

On 1/24/2016 at 4:49 PM, collinb said:

Your local HD may have worse wood than mine. 

Collin, this is a very uninformed statement. Grits don't come to a boil faster on your stove than mine, and your home depot doesn't sell magic wood. You can pick though that pile all day, but no matter what you grab....no matter how flat it looks, it's not. Close enough for some interior trim? yes. Close enough for furniture? no.

Why? Because small discrepencies compound into large ones as the build goes on. 

You would know this if you owned a jointer. It may be at this time that it is "good enough" for you, and that's all fine and dandy....but it's not flat...because it "looks flat".

[wtnhighlander]

Ahhh, but@janello, all HD lumber is NOT the same! My local store carries pine, western red cedar, red oak, and poplar as "fine lumber". However, other members report stores with maple, walnut, and cherry available. If so many different species are to be found, the logical conclusion is that various levels of quality may be found also.

That doesn't mean ANY of it is worth squat, just different degrees of squat...

[sheperd80]

A jointer is absolutely necessary... if youre selling "fine" furniture with traditional joinery to exacting standards and dont have time to handplane.

.

For most woodworkers a jointer is a luxury, a valuable shop upgrade, a worthwhile investment for sure, but not a necessity. Ive seen alot of beautiful work done by talented guys who literally dont even know what a jointer is. And im not talkin about cheesey DIY pocket-screw painted bookcases here but beautiful show pieces.

.

Now, if you gave this type of furniture a colonoscopy with an engineers square and something or other from Starret then you'd find errors, no doubt. But the customer and most on-lookers dont see 1/64 out of square or a few thou variation in a drawer reveal. To imply that this level of perfection is required for quality work is plain silly. In the end, craftsmanship, artistic ability, and the skills to make some look perfect when it isnt outway having absolutely flat boards.

.

All that said... i may be scoring a killer deal on a jointer this weekend!!! :-D

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[JosephThomas]

5 hours ago, Janello said:

Grits don't come to a boil faster on your stove than mine,

Well technically they might. Water boils at a lower temp at higher altitudes...

[collinb]

10 hours ago, Janello said:

Collin, this is a very uninformed statement. Grits don't come to a boil faster on your stove than mine, and your home depot doesn't sell magic wood. You can pick though that pile all day, but no matter what you grab....no matter how flat it looks, it's not. Close enough for some interior trim? yes. Close enough for furniture? no.

Why? Because small discrepencies compound into large ones as the build goes on. 

You would know this if you owned a jointer. It may be at this time that it is "good enough" for you, and that's all fine and dandy....but it's not flat...because it "looks flat".

Except ... if I pick up a 6' piece and it is flat to a straight edge then it is flat to a straight edge.

And ... if what I am doing *at this time* has not involved joining edges then the wood can be better than just "good enough" for the work.

I agree that there's no "magic wood."  But w/o a jointer I can sand and plane and get the surface needed.  For instance, this Spring I am making a pair of small, narrow end tables.  The tops will be marble and framed with some sort of molding that I will make.  None of this will require a jointer.  Should I go further and make the dresser that I have in mind, or that 8x10 camera of my dreams, then I will obtain a joining solution.  But until then one is not necessary.  Many fine pieces can be made without a jointer. It may be the minority of pieces but quality pieces they will remain.

Caveat: It appears that your use of "jointer" might include the capacity that I get from planing. In that case I would agree.  Wood needs to be flattened or smoothed almost all of the time, even the good stuff I cull out. But that's not what I was getting at. My definition was narrower -- I was thinking of the edges to be joined.  It had to do with squaring up the corners and nothing more.  But it seems that a good number of people use their jointers like a planer.  Maybe I'm being a bit overly precise but that seems to obfuscate the term. Those of us who are more novice might wish to use the term more precisely -- planing is planing and joining is joining. One machine may do both but the functions remain distinct to us.

[collinb]

14 minutes ago, Mike. said:

A planer makes two faces parallel.   It does not make a face flat unless the opposite face os already flat.  A jointer makes one face flat and creates a 90 degree edge.  Full stop.  

I know that.

Here's what I'm sensing:  Let's say you've got a piece of lumber that's "square" but not at the size you want.  You need to take some off it for a fit.  Which tool do you use?  It seems one might choose either tool to get the job done.  Is that not correct?

[Janello]

8 minutes ago, collinb said:

I know that.

Here's what I'm sensing:  Let's say you've got a piece of lumber that's "square" but not at the size you want.  You need to take some off it for a fit.  Which tool do you use?  It seems one might choose either tool to get the job done.  Is that not correct?

No...It's NOT correct. And that's why I pointed this out to you. They are two different tools with two different purposes.

A planer will only mimmick what you already have on the other side. A jointer will get the face flat, then the edge square...and THEN the planer gets the other face parallel to the JOINTED FLAT FACE.

Not trying to be a wise guy...But I knew you were misinformed, and wanted you to understand the difference.

By the way... A jointer is properly set up with a dial indicator to within a couple thousandths. So unless your eye can see 2 thousands over 6 foot...You don't know how flat you started. And a jointer.....Or a hand plane and winding sticks in experienced hands is the only way to do this with good results.

Or should I say...there are a few ways...but the jointer is by far the easiest and most precise way.

[collinb]

Again I understand that. You did not answer the scenario I provided.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

[Janello]

9 minutes ago, collinb said:

Let's say you've got a piece of lumber that's "square" but not at the size you want

Yes, I did answer it...Because unless it went over a jointer...It's not square.

[Llama]

3 minutes ago, collinb said:

I know that.

Here's what I'm sensing:  Let's say you've got a piece of lumber that's "square" but not at the size you want.  You need to take some off it for a fit.  Which tool do you use?  It seems one might choose either tool to get the job done.  Is that not correct?

Two completely different things Collin. 

How much is "some"? If it's a little, then I'd use a drum sander. If it's a lot, let's say 1/4" or more use a planer. I don't know anyone that uses a powered jointer with the express purpose of reducing the stocks thickness/width. This is a byproduct of making the board flat during the initial milling phase. This does not make a jointer a planer, and certainly doesn't make a planer a jointer. If you need to take a little bit off, as in a drawer front, a hand plane is the right tool.

[Janello]

Collin, I'm gonna give you a mental picture.

IF you owned a jointer, and you went to home depot and grabbed the straitest board you can find. You then came home with it and put it on the long INFEED table of your jointer and then ran it through the blades and it came to rest on the OUTFEED table of the jointer. I promise you, you would have an AH HA! moment, and say....so that's what a flat board looks like!!!

And no...a planer can't won't and will not do this job. Because a planer needs that flat surface to do ITS job.

 

[Gilgaron]

You'd be better off jointing with a hand plane than a router.  I tried to router thing on my router table while it works, you're better off with a ripping jig on a table saw. 

If you don't want a jointer, a scrub or jack plane doesn't take long to get a board flat.  It can take a while to get wood to look good and smooth with hand planes, but flat goes pretty quick once you get good at it. 

And you're close to me: don't get the wood at the hardware store, go to Woodwerks (http://thisiswoodworking.com/) or Kreis Sawmill (http://www.kreissawmill.com/).  Much better prices at either and you can get some better species.  Kreis stocks rough and Woodwerks S2S but either will mill it for you. 

[Immortan D]

2 hours ago, collinb said:

I know that.

Here's what I'm sensing:  Let's say you've got a piece of lumber that's "square" but not at the size you want.  You need to take some off it for a fit.  Which tool do you use?  It seems one might choose either tool to get the job done.  Is that not correct?

If you need a different thickness for a piece of wood that is already square and parallel, you only need a planer. Repeated passes will give you the desired thickness. The full name of planers is "thickness planers" after all.