c1711 House Renovation

[drzaius]

This thread is more entertaining than a good TV show. Be sad when it ends.

[Chet]

I have been here on the forum much the last week or so, so I am just seeing this.  This is definitely an amazing undertaking.  All I have done is looked at the pictures and I am spent.  I am looking forward to the progress.

[bgreenb]

Glad you guys are enjoying the journal.  I wasn't even going to do one but then decided to do it just for my own benefit, to have documentation somewhere of the journey.

After having worked on the house pretty much solo for 2-3 months before the framers stepped in, I felt kind of aimless once they started working.  What can I do to make progress while they're working?  Build some window trim kits!  I wanted to match the style of other houses in this period, and luckily we have many others in my town to use as models.  They all have very chunky sills with moderate reveals on either side and flat 3-4 inch casing.  So I got myself a pile of primed pine 5/4x4...

And some 4x4 douglas fir (I picked through the stacks to find the straightest and most defect free pieces, then I arranged the sill cutouts so as to cut away any knots or other defects so that the sill would end up being a nice straight grained piece):

Cutting the sills was just a matter of milling them four square, then a rip, a bevel cut, a kerf cut on the bottom for drips, and a crosscut to length.  Easy peasy.

Making the rest of the casing wasn't rocket science either.  Basically an exercise in croscutting and pocket holes.  Here's a mock up:

 I used my very large and flat kitchen island as an assembly surface and diligently screwed them all together with stainless steel kreg screws, until I had a nice stack of window trim kits ready for delivery:

The next step was tackling the front door surround.  Again I used another house in town as a model for what I was going for.  I wanted something to really dress up the front door, but not something so large as to take over the entire front of the house.  It's not a very large home so I wanted to stay proportionate.  I settled on a design that's fairly common around here.  Fluted pilasters with plinth blocks dying into a large frieze, with the frieze adorned with a band moulding, then dentil transitioning into a cornice and then a large thick pine cap.  I don't have any process pics unfortunately, but it's pretty straightforward.  I used a router and edge guide to make the flutes with a bullnose bit.  basically just an exercise in marking and hand control.  I made the dentil using my crosscut sled, a dado stack, and a simple dentil jig I made from scrap.  I made some custom cuff moulding at my router table for around the pilasters.  The transition between the pilasters and the frieze is just a 5/4 piece of pine with a 1/4 roundover on each edge.  The top piece is a piece of 8/4 pine that I put through my planer with wedges under it to give it slope to shed water.  Then I primed everything and nailed/screwed it in place with stainless trim screws and stainless finish nails.  Not exactly fine woodworking, but at least I got to be in my shop.

 

And since you've all been such nice boys and girls here is a pic of the front door surround a couple of months later fully painted and finished:

Here she is weather tight!

 

[Art]

Awesome job, and thanks for documenting it so thoroughly.  It's heartening to see one of these old houses being saved.  Around here in Vancouver, zoning laws discourage this kind of renovation.  Essentially, the older houses have larger footprints that wouldn't be allowed on a new build.  However, the definition of a "renovation" is quite liberal, so a lot of the builders will almost completely tear down the old houses, leaving just one or two walls standing, and just build a completely new house around these sad remnants.  This qualifies as a renovation, and thus they can build a bigger house (which is what this market demands) than they otherwise could.  I personally would much rather have what you're doing, than some "renovated" McMansion...

[Tpt life]

Thanks for the ride. My first house was an 1860 we drove by daily and bought in sad state. The rot was much more limited and it was a simple repair as things go. I find it almost a calling. With regard to time hardening...the house was all poplar framing and hard as rock. Maybe tough more than hard. Good on ya!

[Janello]

6 hours ago, bgreenb said:

Glad you guys are enjoying the journal.  I wasn't even going to do one but then decided to do it just for my own benefit, to have documentation somewhere of the journey.

Really glad you decided to share. This is an amazing undertaking and you sir have a big set of bawls !  

You must have learned so much from this journey, and that is priceless.

 

 

 

[Alan G]

This has been an incredible journal so far. Thanks so much for sharing and doing so in such detail!!! 

[Woodenskye]

Brian, I agree with the others, thank you for sharing this.  Fastly approaching my favorite thread of all time!!!

[davewyo]

Coming along great, Brian!

It seems like you only started a week ago and you've made incredible progress!

Much better than I could ever expect to do. I estimate it would take me at least two weeks to get where you are...depending on how many trips to Home Depot I would have to make.

[bgreenb]

So after the exterior trim went on, the build really started flying.  Siding was obviously next.  I decided to go with pre-primed cedar clapboard, as it was period appropriate, a very popular look around here, and I just think it looks awesome   If this were going to be my house, I would do cedar shingles on the sides and clapboard on the front, which is also very common and what I have on my own house, but I figured I'd save a few bucks and just go clapboard all around.  So yeah, here she is, pre-primed clapboard hand nailed with stainless steel siding nails (the color is just the primer, though it isn't far off from the color I eventually ended up going with, as you'll see):

And the back:

Meanwhile, inside the house, all the trades were hard at work.  Plumbing, HVAC, and electrical all went in at the same time.  One of the most important lessons I learned was that I way way way way underestimated the amount of time and energy I would spend managing subcontractors.  It's like running a kindergarten class.  Scheduling is brutal.  You're extremely lucky if they show up when they say they will, and it's this delicate dance where you're pissed off they're not there, but you don't wanna be too aggressive and have them be like "F it, I'll show up when I feel like it" just to spite you.  And it was like feast or famine - nobody would be there for four days, and then every trade would show up on the same day and bitch about having no room to work...and it's like, seriously dude?  That's the whole point of the schedule we agreed on and you ignored.  Ugh.  They were all great guys and did great work...just a constant hassle.  

Anyway, for HVAC I decided to do forced hot air, because I was going to have to run ductwork for AC anyway, so why install a whole separate heating system?   Much lower cost this way.  I personally wouldn't want forced hot air in my own home because it's so dry (or I would install an inline humidifier), but it's a great economical option.  The ductwork was a challenge because timber framing doesn't lend itself to duct runs for obvious reasons, but the guys doing the sheet metal got pretty creative and I just had to box out one chase to get the main trunk line from the basement to the attic, then they ran all the upstairs duct in the attic and the rest of it in the basement and crawlspace, as you'd expect.  They impressed me with how well they were able to squeeze in to the crawlspace.

The mason was also hard at work building a block chimney with three separate flue passages for the three fireplaces.  Those ceramic flue pipes are HEAVY.  My mason was probably 55-60 years old and he hossed those things from the driveway all the way up to the attic.  I didn't envy him.  

The kitchen fireplace was in very rough shape so he took it down from the lintel to the flue opening and rebuilt using restoration brick.

Other than the aforementioned central load bearing wall, I did all the first floor framing.  

For insulation I went with spray foam.  This was actually an interesting discussion.  Our town has a "stretch energy code" where we have to meet stricter energy requirements in exchange for some BS grants from the state.  It's atrocious, but it is what it is.  Anyway I had the insulation company out and told them "I want the absolute cheapest way to meet code."  He told me he would quote it both ways, but that open cell foam was actually almost as cheap as fiberglass at this point because there were so many companies doing it now.  Closed cell foam is way more expensive still, but open cell foam very competitive.  It's about the same R value as fiberglass depending on the fiberglass product you buy, but it's far far superior in air sealing so you end up witha  much better thermal envelope.  I went with open cell foam for all the walls.  We also did a hot roof - 2" of closed cell foam on the underneath of the roof sheathing, then fill the rest of the rafter bays with open cell.  This brings the attic into the conditioned space, making the ductwork much more efficient, negating the need for air sealing all the ceiling penetrations, and solves the (major) ice dam problem that many homes (including my own) have in the winter.  In the basement we coated the foundation walls with closed cell foam and then sprayed the joist bays with open cell.  Here we are ready for blueboard and plaster:

The board hangers and plasterers worked REALLY fast.  I couldn't believe how quickly they got the walls closed in.  The plaster is a real art too, and I see why people prefer it to drywall.  Zero visible seams, a much better base for paint, and definitely more durable too.  

With the walls closed in, it was time for trim.  I did all the trim and finish carpentry.  For the windows I went with flat shaker style casings with window stool and apron, which is what I have in my own house and what I felt was befitting the house.  Simple, clean lines.  I used all poplar for the window casings and joined at the corners with pocket screws so the joints would remain flush.  I had to make up extension jambs for the first floor windows because the 1" exterior sheathing meant that a standard 4 9/16 window would still need another 1/2" or so to bring it flush with the interior wall, so I just used the extension jamb to add a small reveal on the inside.  

In the living and dining rooms (the two front rooms of the house), I added a chair rail used tall two piece baseboard.  The baseboard was full 3/4x7" flat stock and then a standard 1 3/8" base cap.  I cope all  my inside corners for all interior trim (base/chair rail/crown).  I think the results are far superior to miters and in my opinion it's just as fast, if not faster in a house like this where none of the corners are even close to square.   For the chair rail I used 1.75" wide 1x pine stock with a 1/4 roundover on top and bottom to create a bullnose.  I then put a decorative "colonial" moulding underneath it.  All of this was done with primed pine.  In the dining room the beams weren't in great shape, so we used a drywall ceiling and I added crown moulding (not pictured, but you'll see it in the final product).  

If it were my own house, I would've done some panel mouldings or rail and stile paneling underneath the chair rail, but I simply didn't have time and didn't want to travel down the trim rabbit hole.  Again I was going for simple, clean lines, and befitting of the character of the house.

All door casings I went with flat 3.5" primed pine.  

At this point, it was time to do some more actual woodworking, which I'll tackle in the next few posts.  

[wtnhighlander]

Dang, Brian! You'rw making me tired, just reading this journal!

 

Awesome job, dude!

[Tom King]

Looks Great!   I'm glad you went with plaster.  I hate sheetrock anyway, and especially do in old houses.

[bgreenb]

8 minutes ago, Tom King said:

Looks Great!   I'm glad you went with plaster.  I hate sheetrock anyway, and especially do in old houses.

Agree, and now that I've really seen the difference, I'll never go back. Sheetrock actually isn't even that common around here anymore other than in commercial jobs. Hardly any residential projects use it anymore. 

[Eric.]

2 minutes ago, bgreenb said:

Agree, and now that I've really seen the difference, I'll never go back. Sheetrock actually isn't even that common around here anymore other than in commercial jobs. Hardly any residential projects use it anymore. 

Even new construction?

[bgreenb]

3 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Even new construction?

Yup. It truly is a noticeable visual difference. Once it started becoming more common, all customers started wanting it, and demand for Sheetrock/mud/tape dwindled drastically.  My contractor said its actually hard to find guys who can mud and tape now because they all work for the big commercial operations now because they couldn't find work in residential construction. 

[Guest]

Brian - the blue board is a type of sheet rock, isn't it? But it is designed to be covered with a skim coat of plaster, correct?

Regional differences are always interesting.  Our climate is similar to yours, maybe a bit hotter in the summer.  1) everyone uses forced air heating and cooling as their primary system 2) I am fairly certain 90% of homes still use fiberglass insulation and 3) yup, we use taped and mudded sheet rock.   I guess all that money spent on EMT and copper prevents us from spending on better finishes, lol.  

[bgreenb]

11 minutes ago, Mike. said:

Brian - the blue board is a type of sheet rock, isn't it? But it is designed to be covered with a skim coat of plaster, correct? 

Correct. It's a special type of Sheetrock that is designed specifically for the plaster to bind to. They tape the seams just like regular Sheetrock but then apply a full fairly thick skim coat over the whole surface, and then come back a day later and apply another (thinner) skim coat. It's pretty cool seeing the surface when they're done. Nice flat smooth surface. Makes the trim easier too because you don't get nearly as much bulging at seams and corners. 

13 minutes ago, Mike. said:

Regional differences are always interesting.  Our climate is similar to yours, maybe a bit hotter in the summer.  1) everyone uses forced air heating and cooling as their primary system 2) I am fairly certain 90% of homes still use fiberglass insulation and 3) yup, we use taped and mudded sheet rock.   I guess all that money spent on EMT and copper prevents us from spending on better finishes, lol.  

Oh don't get me wrong, forced air is very common, probably the most common system in new construction for exactly the reasons I mentioned above. My house is hot water baseboard heating and then forced air central cooling. 

If I were building a house from scratch for myself I would do radiant heat and forced air cooling. 

Spray foam is still definitely much less common than fiberglass. It's more that it's increasing in popularity because the price is coming down and people are obsessed with energy efficiency now. 

But yes, pex, pvc, and romex are a lot cheaper than copper and EMT  

[drzaius]

I absolutely love plaster, but around here, it's almost unheard of. A plaster wall under raking light is a beautiful thing. The slight, irregular undulations are almost organic. I'm sure it would be very expensive because there are so few qualified people to do it.

In Calgary, a really old house is 100 years old. We don't get to see anything like this here.

[Coop]

Brian, why poplar in some areas and pine in others?

[Eric.]

9 hours ago, bgreenb said:

Yup. It truly is a noticeable visual difference. Once it started becoming more common, all customers started wanting it, and demand for Sheetrock/mud/tape dwindled drastically.  My contractor said its actually hard to find guys who can mud and tape now because they all work for the big commercial operations now because they couldn't find work in residential construction. 

Wow, that's crazy.  Two very different mentalities between our geographies.  I don't think the vast majority of McMansion buyers around here even know what plaster is, let alone have the taste to want it.  I would have never guessed that it was being used in new construction anywhere, in light of the trend of going with the cheapest, fastest, easiest materials available...in any aspect of any home* that a builder thinks they can get away with.

*or any other thing in production at this time

What an amazing transformation on the exterior of that house.  That primer color is great!

[bgreenb]

5 hours ago, K Cooper said:

Brian, why poplar in some areas and pine in others?

The journal is going a bit out of order for presentation purposes, but I had a bunch of poplar left over from a previous part of the project (that I'll get to in the next post). I had just enough for all the windows, and I had to clear it out of my shop to make space, so I figured I might as well use it. 

Pine for the rest because it's cheaper

 

[bgreenb]

49 minutes ago, Eric. said:

 

*or any other thing in production at this time

This made me lol. 

Yeah this is a fair point. I think the explanation is that there is an ongoing tension between the (1) drive in our society to produce everything we cheaply and shoddily as possible because nobody knows the difference and (2) the desire to keep up with the joneses. 

Now (2) is interesting because I think it often manifests in desire for signals or totems that you can easily deploy as a talking point. Using plaster as an example, my guess is that some more affluent people started using it because they truly did notice and appreciate the difference. Then their friends saw that they had gotten plaster, so when they did their own renovations, they demanded it because "that's what people 'in the know' use."  I suspect that's the reason everyone demands dovetailed drawers in their kitchens now even though a tiny percentage could actually tell you why other than to say "that's what all my friends have."

Then I think you end up with an economic/price adjustment process just like in anything else. Demand increases, supply increases to match, workers see where the demand trends are going and create downward price pressure (just like the spray foam) and eventually it becomes more mainstream, just like how even Home Depot cabinets have dovetail drawers now. 

But yes I do suspect there are huge regional differences in these trends.

It's similar with cars. The wealthy subsidize R&D of features that we consider standard now because they pay for them in high end cars. The reason your Honda Civic has Bluetooth (and electronic Windows and door locks for that matter) is that some rich dude paid for it in his Mercedes or jaguar years ago. 

Just my armchair analysis, and I assure you it's worth the price you paid

 

[Eric.]

8 minutes ago, bgreenb said:

Now (2) is interesting because I think it often manifests in desire for signals or totems that you can easily deploy as a talking point. Using plaster as an example, my guess is that some more affluent people started using it because they truly did notice and appreciate the difference. Then their friends saw that they had gotten plaster, so when they did their own renovations, they demanded it because "that's what people 'in the know' use."  I suspect that's the reason everyone demands dovetailed drawers in their kitchens now even though a tiny percentage could actually tell you why other than to say "that's what all my friends have."

Plaster...the shellac of the homebuilding world.

Yeah your analysis makes sense...a logical progression.  A seed is planted and takes root.  Plus you have to imagine that people in Boston (and similar older American geographies) are generally more aware of traditional finishes in homes simply due to exposure.  The vast majority of St. Louisans grew up in post-war or newer homes, where old school craftsmanship has been all but lost on us.  Ignorance breeds ignorance.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Eric. said:

Plaster...the shellac of the homebuilding world.

Yeah your analysis makes sense...a logical progression.  A seed is planted and takes root.  Plus you have to imagine that people in Boston (and similar older American geographies) are generally more aware of traditional finishes in homes simply due to exposure.  The vast majority of St. Louisans grew up in post-war or newer homes, where old school craftsmanship has been all but lost on us.  Ignorance breeds ignorance.

to add to the discussion.... the historic homes in Boston are not very large, or at least not large by moderb housing tract atandards. .   $800,000 for 1500 sq ft can buy you nice finishes, and things like plaster, foam insulation, radiant floors, dovetails, and inset cabinetry become the realtor talking points.   Brian, my guess is there are not that many cabinets in your kitchen, so the cabinets you use are mich better quality.  Just a guess  

In my area, land is still somewhat plentiful (farmland is still be converting in housing tracts) so "4,000 square feet" is the realtor talking point.   Filling a 4,000 SF house with top end finishes will send you into bankruptcy.... 

 

 

[bgreenb]

16 minutes ago, Mike. said:

to add to the discussiob.... the historic homes in Boston are not very large, or at least not large by moderb housing tract atandards. .   $800,000 for 1500 sq ft can buy you nice finishes, and things like plaster, foam insulation, radiant floors, dovetails, and inset cabinetry become the realtor talking points.   Brian, my guess is there are not that many cabinets in your kitchen, so the cabinets you use are mich better quality.  Just a guess  

In my area, land is still somewhat plentiful (farmland is still be converting in housing tracts) so "4,000 square feet" is the realtor talking point.   Filling a 4,000 SF house with top end finishes will send you into bankruptcy.... 

 

 

Yup, this is a major factor as well.  Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of 4k+ sf homes around, but the vast vast majority of "high end" homes top out around 3k-3200sf, and most are closer to 2800-3000.   Now that's still a big house, but it's not unreasonable to fill a house like that with high end finishes.  Especially since most houses around here are stylistically simple because that's what people want:  colonial, expanded cape, gambrel, etc.