Electrical talk for the Hammer

[bleedinblue]

Here we go. 

Electrical talk is like a different language to me.  Please use small words, crayons, pictures. 

I have it in my head that I will run wire to the sub panel to have it ready for someone to help me connect it to the breaker.  I have ZERO intentions of powering this thing up without someone who knows what the hell they're doing.  I went today to start buying crap to put this together.  I bought everything except wire, will get to that in a minute.  Can you guys look through this junk and make sure I am at least close? 

The debate on 20A and 30A circuits for this machine is well documented with no real winner as far as I can tell.  People say that Felder themselves give varying answers, but most at Felder say 20A is appropriate.

This is my one and only 220V tool in my shop.  People on Facebook suggest going 30A (or 20A with 10/2 wire) in case I add more tools later that require more power to save me from running another wire.  The thing is, running wire is the easiest part for me.  I have exposed rafters and an exposed sub panel.  I'm not concerned with this.

I have a lot of 12/2 romex cable on hand, left over from when I ran all of my outlets in the shop.  If possible, I'd like to use this.  If it's not appropriate, I'll buy new cable no problem. 

Attached is a photo of the breaker I bought.  Look right?  Dual pole, 20A?  After I got home I realized the outlet I bought is 30A.  That must be exchanged for a 20A, right?

As some of you know the Hammer comes with a short wire.  They say the warranty will be voided if you open the electrical box up, so the manual says to construct an extension cord.  Dumb, but whatever.  The cord from the Hammer has two black and one yellow wire.

I bought a 20A female locking connector and two male plugs.

I was going to buy 12/3 sjoow cable for the extension cord at Home Depot but couldn't find it sold by the foot.  Maybe order it from this place?  Is 12/3 sjoow appropriate for the extension cord? 

[Tpt life]

Standing by. 

[bleedinblue]

5 minutes ago, Tpt life said:

Standing by. 

It's easier for me to upload pictures from my phone, but type on the computer

[Brendon_t]

I'm of no help in determining correctness of the parts but it looks like you've got a fun project.  

I wired my shop much as you did. Ran an wires, installed the sub, left all boxes open and an electrical inclined buddy came over, maybe a 6 pack later combined, it was ready.  Pre work makes the work less workey.

[Mark J]

OK I am not @drzaius, but here's a couple of my thoughts.

1 hour ago, bleedinblue said:

After I got home I realized the outlet I bought is 30A.

That's a no-no on a 20A circuit.  But I would re think going 30A on the circuit.  This is your only 220v tool, now.  It's not the only one your going to have/want eventually.  But that's me.  

1 hour ago, bleedinblue said:

The manual says to construct an extension cord. 

I made a 220V extension cord for a 30A circuit from 10 guage 3 strand.  It says SOOW, but I have no idea what that means.   I bought a 25ft package and cut it down to 20 feet which is long enough to reach anywhere in my shop.

1 hour ago, bleedinblue said:

20A female locking connector.  I'll attach this to the short cord coming from the Hammer, then make an extension cord with male plugs on each end.  Look right?

Typically you'd terminate the wire from the machine with a male plug, then put a male and a female on the extension cord.  Either way will carry the current, but future machines you might want to run off the extension would likely have a male plug.

There are about a dozen different types of 220V plugs.  I like the barrel style you bought because male and female lock together with a twist.  A particulaly desirable feature for an extension cord.  

When you make up the extension cord be mindful that the wires are solidly connected within the plug housings.  I can't remember who or when, but I remember someone posting about a plug melting down.  

[bleedinblue]

7 minutes ago, Mark J said:

OK I am not @drzaius, but here's a couple of my thoughts.

That's a no-no on a 20A circuit.  But I would re think going 30A on the circuit.  This is your only 220v tool, now.  It's not the only one your going to have/want eventually.  But that's me.  

I made a 220V extension cord for a 30A circuit from 10 guage 3 strand.  It says SOOW, but I have no idea what that means.   I bought a 25ft package and cut it down to 20 feet which is long enough to reach anywhere in my shop.

Typically you'd terminate the wire from the machine with a male plug, then put a male and a female on the extension cord.  Either way will carry the current, but future machines you might want to run off the extension would likely have a male plug.

There are about a dozen different types of 220V plugs.  I like the barrel style you bought because male and female lock together with a twist.  A particulaly desirable feature for an extension cord.  

When you make up the extension cord be mindful that the wires are solidly connected within the plug housings.  I can't remember who or when, but I remember someone posting about a plug melting down.  

I have no idea why I got it in my head that I would have to do a female plug on the machine and male/male on the extension cord.  It makes zero sense that it would have to be that way.  Definitely scratch that and go with the traditional configuration.

 

As far as additional tools that may also be 220V...it's just not likely to happen.  If anything, it'll be a dust collector that will need to be on a dedicated circuit anyway.  I'm not moving off my bandsaw that I just got last year and I'm content with my tablesaw. 

[Mark J]

Your just excited about the new toy.  I bet you ripped the box, didn't you.  

Hey, I found the melted plug thread.  Worth a look.  20A is a lot of electrons and 220V is a lot of motivation.  Also once it os all plugged in consider wrapping the jointer extension cord junction in electrical tape to keep the dust out.

 

[pkinneb]

That's pretty much it but as stated above the 30 am outlet on a 20 amp circuit is a no no. Regarding the cords you can buy really nice 10/3 or 12/3 cord by the foot at HD that's what I did using the ends you bought. You can see it here bottom right.

I ran out and checked I went with a 30 amp breaker on mine probably becuase if offered a choice I only wanted to do it once. Also my wiring is all behind finished walls so it would have been hard to change it. My Sawstop and A3/31 are on the same breaker as well. Since its a one man shop they are usually not on at the same time but I have inadvertently (read forgot to shut off the saw) a time or two with no issues.

[bleedinblue]

I know I bought cable by the foot to replace the power cord for my tablesaw at Home Depot.  They were about ready to kick me out of the store because I used their measuring thingy to measure it and cut it myself, they weren't happy about that.  The setup is different now though and I didn't find anything but huge spools of 12/3 sjoow/soow.  Maybe I can sneak to a Lowes tomorrow to see if they have any, and go back to HD to replace that outlet. 

Unless anyone says otherwise I'm pretty confident I have the other components I need. 

[Tom King]

Any type of SO wire is fine for the extension cord.  All the other letters in the different types mean something for specific purposes, but any will be okay for this.

Since you have plenty of 12/2, and manual says 20 amp is okay for this machine, I see no reason not to use it.    I've never put in a 240 volt circuit that was less than 30 amp though, but I always have enough to do it either way left over from various jobs.

Once the wire is in the service panel, the hardest part of the work has been done.  Hooking it up to the breaker, and ground bar is the easy part.   For a 2 pole (240 volt) breaker, the black and wire wires go on the breaker, and the ground wire where all the other ground wires are.

The package for the plugs will have a diagram to show how much of the wire is to be stripped.   For 120v devices, the black wire goes under the brass lug, the white wire under the silver lug, and the ground wire under the green lug.  For 240 volt, it really doesn't matter which  way the black and white wires go under the brass or silver lugs, but I always hook it up the same way anyway.

Crank the screws on the lugs down tightly.  Torque setting is in my wrist, and I forget what it should be, but German tight.  Plugs usually burn up because these connections were not done carefully, with the wires all the way home, and tight enough to never loosen.  Loose will arc over time.  Make sure the wire is pushed into the plug good enough so that when the clamp part on the outside of the wire is tightened, that the wire will never want to wiggle loose inside the plug.

I'll see if I can find the chart for the different types of SO wire.

Here you go:

https://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=type-sj-sjoow-portable-cord

I forgot to ask:   where are you guys getting your information that a device (plug/receptacle) cannot be for a higher amperage than the circuit?   I know it's not supposed to be smaller, but I don't see the problem with 30 amp devices on a 20 amp circuit.

[bleedinblue]

I'm really not worried about SJOOW vs SOOW, aren't they just codes for environmental resistance?  Oil/water resistance, stuff like that?  Not an issue in this application as far as I can see. 

What confuses me is the number of conductors in the wire.  It seems that 12/3 romex has four conductive wires, while 12/3 so has three(?)  For the extension cord I know I need three conductors, so I wasn't entirely confident I didn't need 12/2 so. 

[Tom King]

In Romex wire, they don't consider the ground wire a conductor.  In SO, the green wire is also encased, and can be considered a conductor.  You won't find an SO with a bare wire.    These days, there is always a ground wire in Romex, and they stopped adding it in the name.  Used to be something like

12/2 w/ground.    Now, simply 12/2 NM, or UF.

[bleedinblue]

That makes sense. 

[Tom King]

Just don't do it like this.   I was checking on one of the houses I built, for its owners, a couple of days ago.   Next door, there was smoke coming out of the ground.  Leaves were at least 6 inches thick all over the lots with million dollar plus houses on them.

The owner of the smoking lot had built a shop separate from their house.  He hooked up the electricity to it himself, and I'm sure never had it inspected.  Fortunately, there was a key to that house in the house that I built, that I was checking on, and knew where it was.

I went in the house, and found the breaker for the building, and turned it off.  It was a 100 amp breaker.  Smoke had stopped by the time I went back outside.

We went out and dug down where the smoke was coming out of the ground.  There were two no.6 NM wires maybe 6 inches in the ground.  One had a homemade splice (I guess) inside a short piece of PVC pipe.  Picture shows the hole burned in the pipe.  Since the wires were each smaller than the amp capacity of the breaker, and only one had burned in two,  the breaker hadn't tripped.

I went inside, and took the wires off the 100 amp breaker, now obvious with the two no.6 NM's on the breaker.  Turning the breaker off would have done it, but I wanted to make sure someone who didn't understand could make a mistake.

The owner of that place had died 6 or 7 years ago, but I found the contact numbers in the house, and called the surviving Wife.   She thanked me profusely.

No one was home at any of the neighboring houses, and if those leaves had caught on fire, there would be several million dollars worth of houses gone.

 

[Tom King]

In talks that I have given about the building trades, one thing I always say about Electrical work is that "It's the easiest trade to do, as far as the amount of physical effort required, but carries the most dire consequences if done incorrectly".

[bleedinblue]

^ Exactly why I'm not going to attach the power myself 

I'm not afraid to do things I don't know much about by myself, except electricity, lol.  Gotta draw the line at electricity. 

[Chestnut]

S stands for service cord OO is oil resistant on external insulation as well as internal insulation. 1 O means oil resistant external insulation i believe but i'm not sure that you'll find it many places. W is water and weather resistant.

SJ stands for service junior. S is rated to 600V where SJ is 300V both should work. Like tom said the number of conductors is the number of insulated conductors.

I'm pretty sure the A3-31 is a 4hp motor. I'd go 30 amp. while you may technically not violate the NEC at 20 amp you are pushing it. Max allowed draw on a 20 amp branch is 16 amps. Each motor is different but my rough guess is that motor draws right around 16 amps. This is rated at full load induction motors will draw MORE than their full rated load at startup and if they are put under near stall conditions. I'd say do it once and do it right.

So while i suggest the 30 amp circuit and 10 gauge wire there you are fine to use 12/3 SOOW or SJOOW according to the NEC if you'd like pictures of the sections i have the book open on my bench.

[drzaius]

3 hours ago, Tom King said:

I forgot to ask:   where are you guys getting your information that a device (plug/receptacle) cannot be for a higher amperage than the circuit?   I know it's not supposed to be smaller, but I don't see the problem with 30 amp devices on a 20 amp circuit.

CEC & NEC are mostly harmonized now, but there are differences. I'm speaking from CEC experience here. There is a code rule the prohibits having a receptacle with a current rating higher than the circuit it's connected to. The rationale is that if someone is plugging into, say a 30A circuit, then there needs to be that capability in the circuit

Nut just beat me to an explanation of the letter codes for the cord. S is tougher & has a thicker outer jacket than SJ. The O, O, & W don't really matter much in a shop setting, but most outlets just stock cable with those designations to reduce inventory. The cost difference isn't that great anyway.

8 hours ago, bleedinblue said:

I was going to buy 12/3 sjoow cable for the extension cord at Home Depot but couldn't find it sold by the foot.  Maybe order it from this place?  Is 12/3 sjoow appropriate for the extension cord? 

For a cord in a shop, I'd go for the S rather than SJ. There's a good chance for damage from a mobile base wheel rolling across it or a heavy board getting dropped on it.

7 hours ago, bleedinblue said:

As some of you know the Hammer comes with a short wire.  They say the warranty will be voided if you open the electrical box up, so the manual says to construct an extension cord.  Dumb, but whatever.  The cord from the Hammer has two black and one yellow wire.

My saw came with a too short cord & it was far easier to just make an extension than to try to dig into a very tight control box, warranty issues aside. I did cut the factory cord to just a couple of feet because it was just SJTW, which is not at all robust & I didn't want to worry about damaging it. I used SOOW & twist lock ends for the extension cord. European machines use different (& confusing) color code than North American. We've had to connect some Euro equipment that did come with English translated instructions, but the wiring diagrams had all the wire colors in German. Thank goodness for Google translate  

Not sure what the FLA of that machine is, but you want to make sure voltage drop is not going to be an issue. There are online voltage drop calculators that will tell you is #12 is OK or if you need to go to #10. Be sure to include the cord length as well as the cable in the wall when doing the calculation. Even though the machine may rarely be working at full load, it's still important to keep voltage drop in check. By code it can be no more than 5%. 

[Chestnut]

33 minutes ago, drzaius said:

CEC & NEC are mostly harmonized now, but there are differences. I'm speaking from CEC experience here. There is a code rule the prohibits having a receptacle with a current rating higher than the circuit it's connected to. The rationale is that if someone is plugging into, say a 30A circuit, then there needs to be that capability in the circuit

The weird thing is there is ambiguity in the code that states for a single recepticle circuit it is not less than the over current protection but for multiple it has to be equal to  values listed in the table... I don't know why they allow 2 different things in the 2 situations.

To play it safe I'd match the receptacle to the breaker. When it gets inspected inspectors try and make it meet the code but at the end of the day it's up to them to sign off on it and if there are some common practices they don't like they won't sign right or wrong it's the way it is.

[wtnhighlander]

Another thing to remember, check the code for YOUR locality. NEC is a baseline, many municipalities have more stringent codes in place.

For what it's worth, I would void the warranty, wire directly to the machine connection box, and maybe install a lockable disconnect switch in place of a plug & receptacle. I've seen a LOT of those twist-lock plugs melt down. I would certainly try to avoid having two sets of them in the line.

[Mark J]

What, @bleedinblue you still don't have that thing plugged in yet?   When we going to get to see the baby pictures.

[Bankstick]

bleedinblue, the reason HD got upset with your "self-service" by cutting wire is the liability issue. If you got hurt, there their butts would be in a sling. I worked at Lowe's and it used to really frost me by parents who couldn't read. Rolling ladders had signs and chains across the railing, yet they would let their kids play on the rolling ladders.

I had to run an additional line as all four plugs ( and only four) in the basement/garage were on one breaker. Very easy, only three wires to keep track of there.

[JohnG]

When I’ve had things cut at the various cutting stations at HD or Lowe’s, I’ve enjoyed noticing how often the code for the machines are 1234 or 1111. A couple times I have seen that the code is actually written on a post or shelf next to the keypad. 

[bleedinblue]

I get it that it was about liability, 100%.  I knew it at the time when the guy scowled and said "I don't think you're supposed to even touch that."  However, it was an extremely safe manual wire cutter.  No way any adult who was even close to competent at life could have hurt themselves.  Thanks to those who are not competent for screwing it up for the rest of us, just like in so many other things.

 

Still no power.  I may end up paying someone after all, my contractor neighbor has been busy, my college buddy that is an electrician has been busy...no dice.  It sucks because this thing could help me out with some Christmas gifts I need to get finished up in the next few days.

[Art]

I have nothing to add other than to say that when I bought my A3-31,  I had an electritian come in to wire everything up.  I gave her the specs for all my machines and let her decide what they needed.  The Hammer ended up with a 30A circuit...