Ron Swanson Jr. Posted June 22, 2019 Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 So here's something that I can't figure out. I use the veritas mk ii honing jig on my plane irons, and time after time, blade after blade, I don't get an even, consistent contact with the stone. I just brought this to Lee Valley and they're looking into it. Here are some pictures. In this case, I had just re-established the primary bevel on an iron using a 250 grit stone. I moved up to a 1200 grit to illustrate this issue - see in the first picture how the left side isn't making even purchase? Now, I've put some thought into troubleshooting this. Here's a list of things I've ruled out: 1. It's not this iron being out of whack. This happens consistently on all my plane irons. 2. Not the stone. This happens on both water and diamond stones. 3. Not me seating the blade in the jig incorrectly. I use the fence on the registration jig to ensure the iron is perpendicular to the head. I am careful to tighten it consistently and evenly. 4. I am even and deliberate with my finger pressure while sharpening. 5. It has nothing to do with the micro bevel control on this jig. There's nothing physical that I can see in the jig that causes this and to tell the truth, it's an annoyance but I still get great results from this jig. So this post is more to satisfy my curiosity than to solve the issue. But I wouldn't mind solving it. Thanks all. I know if there's anyone who can figure this out it's the people in this forum. I greatly appreciate the advice and guidance in here. The second pic is the bevel before I started on the next stone. It's even and consistent and the third pic shows the bevel is an even 25° Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted June 22, 2019 Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 Looks a bit like the bed of the jig isn't perfectly flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted June 22, 2019 Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 I am sure you thought of this but be sure that the jig is holding the blade evenly with equal pressure at both tightening knobs and amke sure the roller assembly is well seated in the proper colored slot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Swanson Jr. Posted June 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said: Looks a bit like the bed of the jig isn't perfectly flat. That's worth a check. Thanks I'll check it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted June 22, 2019 Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 I consistently have a similar problem with plane blades on the MK II jig. The bevel forms more (deeper? sooner?) On one side than the other, despite careful attention to alignment, clamp pressure and grinding pressure. I just thought it was me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted June 22, 2019 Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 I am wondering if your rollers are not true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted June 22, 2019 Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 I've heard of this quite a number of times, over years. I just keep the cambered roller on mine all the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barron Posted June 22, 2019 Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 Is it sharp? If it is, then it’s just cosmetic and not worth worrying about. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Swanson Jr. Posted June 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Barron said: Is it sharp? If it is, then it’s just cosmetic and not worth worrying about. Yes. It is. That's why I tried to make clear that this was just a curiosity and not a huge problem I was trying to solve. And then, oddly enough, after re-establishing the primary bevel on an iron, and having this issue clearly happen right before my eyes, I put the jig on the it's micro bevel setting and for the first time ever, this issue didn't happen. So IDK. Maybe I'm just nuts. But it drives me crazy, because I can't figure it out and it ends up taking a lot longer. But aside from that, your right, it's mostly cosmetic. 5 hours ago, Tom King said: I've heard of this quite a number of times, over years. I just keep the cambered roller on mine all the time. I use the camber roller on some irons, but not all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Swanson Jr. Posted June 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 5 hours ago, Mark J said: I consistently have a similar problem with plane blades on the MK II jig. The bevel forms more (deeper? sooner?) On one side than the other. I just thought it was me. Good to know I'm not the only one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Swanson Jr. Posted June 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 5 hours ago, Tpt life said: I am wondering if your rollers are not true? that could be, but I've examined them pretty closely and I don't think that that's it. I'm beginning to wonder if it doesn't have something to do with me being right-handed? Mainly because I've ruled out just about every other conceivable cause. And I would expect the opposite to be true, that if one arm was stronger than the other, the opposite side would take longer to sharpen than what I'm seeing. So, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Swanson Jr. Posted June 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 22 hours ago, Ronn W said: I am sure you thought of this but be sure that the jig is holding the blade evenly with equal pressure at both tightening knobs and amke sure the roller assembly is well seated in the proper colored slot. Thanks @Ronn W. I've checked all these settings dozens of times. And I'm very careful and deliberate about seating the blade accurately, and squarely, and using consistent and even pressure when tightening the blade into The jig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knockknock Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 When using most sharpening guides, check frequently and adjust your pressure accordingly. When using a sharpening guide, you can bias the pressure to the middle or one side or the other, or on the corners. What most sharpening guides do, is they help you keep a consistent angle (which by the way, slowly changes slightly as you wear away the metal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Swanson Jr. Posted June 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, knockknock said: When using most sharpening guides, check frequently and adjust your pressure accordingly. When using a sharpening guide, you can bias the pressure to the middle or one side or the other, or on the corners. What most sharpening guides do, is they help you keep a consistent angle (which by the way, slowly changes slightly as you wear away the metal). Thanks. I've been trying to figure this out for some time now so I'm pretty careful and intentional with finger placement and pressure on the blade. And I do check progress constantly. This might be a mystery that I never solve as I'm starting to venture into freehand sharpening without the jig. I appreciate you taking the time to reply. Take care Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakStBeachBum Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 I have had this same issue. I ended up switching to a side clamping eclipse style guide and the problem went away. I still use the MKII for odd sized blades but it is no longer the first thing I reach for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Swanson Jr. Posted July 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 3 hours ago, OakStBeachBum said: I have had this same issue. I ended up switching to a side clamping eclipse style guide and the problem went away. I still use the MKII for odd sized blades but it is no longer the first thing I reach for. Eclipse.... Like this style? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakStBeachBum Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 7/11/2019 at 7:11 PM, applejackson said: Eclipse.... Like this style? Yes exactly. I store it in a box that also has a homemade angle stops. Open the box, put the blade in the guide, size it to the correct angle based on the stops, and hone away. Pretty fast and easy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 7/11/2019 at 9:11 PM, applejackson said: Eclipse.... Like this style? That's the overpriced Lie Nielsen version. They offer interchangeable jaws for chisels, skewed blades, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Swanson Jr. Posted July 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, Immortan D said: That's the overpriced Lie Nielsen version. They offer interchangeable jaws for chisels, skewed blades, etc. Yes I am aware of that - I just didn't know what he meant by Eclipse - I hadn't heard that term before. Thanks for your reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby W Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 I have had issues with the roller jamming on my Mk2 guide. I use it for oddball blades, but prefer my L-N side clamping guide for normal sharpening. It is faster and I haven't had any issues with it. Like OakStBeachBum, i made a set of stops on my sharpening board to set the angle. Very fast and repeatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 I've had no issues with my Mk. II guide. Maybe I'm using it wrong? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby W Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 On 7/17/2019 at 6:24 AM, drzaius said: I've had no issues with my Mk. II guide. Maybe I'm using it wrong? Pretty sure the issue is on my end. I wonder if I got some swarf in the roller bearings. Someday, I'll tear it apart cans see what caused it. The jam caused the micro bevel setting to spin and gave made a rounded edge. Weird.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted July 21, 2019 Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 I run a little behind on reading Fine Wood Working, so I'm just getting to March now. There's a review of honing guides in that issue. Not surprisingly the reviewer liked the Lie-Nielsen and the Veritas mk II the best. He did comment that the mk II is very sensitive to the pressure applied by the two clamping knobs, and that uneven pressure will skew the edge. Thing is I know this and am careful, but still get a skewed edge. So I don't know how many decimels of precission are expected from the operator. The review also gives the older Veritas Sharpening System (mk I ?) A very good rating. This is a single screw top clamp device sold with a jig to determine angle. Looking at it this might be a better compromise. I have too much invested in the mk II, and don't spend that much time with planes and bench chisels (my woodworking has spun off in another direction), but if I were going back in time I'd look at the mk I more closely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnG Posted July 21, 2019 Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 I have both the mk i and mk ii. I haven’t used the mk i since I got the newer one. The angle finder it comes with doesn’t have a long enough reference surface to be quickly and easily repeatable, the homemade angle reference like @Tom King has would be far better than the one it comes with. It has nothing to keep the blade square to the jig, and I found it very fiddly to get the blade square, the screw tight, and keep the angle I want. It works just as well once you have it all set but since sharpening already feels like an inconvenience, I’d rather use a jig that I can quickly and easily set. I don’t really care if I get a slightly skewed micro bevel. I haven’t noticed any difference between that and the chisels I have only the primary bevel on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted July 21, 2019 Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 Good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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