Design question

[Guest]

I prefer playing vinyl records to mp3s for all the same reasons.  Personally I think the sound is more pleasant.  But beyond that, playing an LP is the activity. I listen to the songs in the order the artist intended, read the liner notes and focus on making the music the center of my attention.   Playing mp3s on shuffle is cool for background noise.  Call it nostalgic, call it an experience, whatever.  I 100% agree that of the point is simply to consume content, digital is fine.  But analog, be it books or music, does provide an entire experience.

Personally I like things that force me to slow down and contemplate a bit. 

[Tpt life]

Digital screws memory Cliff. I can remember page structure of a text that is not the same. The research is plain. The memories are not built the same way digitally and create dependency. The digital fosters consumption. The printed page fosters retention. You argument is about preference, and you are in the minority regarding fine furniture and metal slides. You may be in the majority about digital print, but you are wrong. ? 

[Cliff]

34 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Well I'll just put it this way since I'll never change your mind...

I love my iPod, but it doesn't make me feel as good as playing an old vinyl album on a turntable.  It just doesn't.

And one more thing now that it strikes me...would your comic books be the same on a Kindle?

Yes. I mean, for the most part. It's a little more awkward because you have to zoom certain parts to view them. so it's a little annoying having to deal with that. I have probably thousands of comics that are digital. I have about 800 comics that are not. The difference between comics and books is value. I can sell a comic for hundreds of dollars. And that - is why I collect comic books that are physical. No other reason. Well.. I like to collect things so it's like a compulsion somewhat. That as well.

[Woodenskye]

42 minutes ago, Mike. said:

I "interacted" with a lot of magazines when I was about.... the age of Mrs Eric's students  

 

I just read the magazine, I didn't know we were supposed to interact with them.  Damn I need to get some magazines and interact!

[Immortan D]

I love printed books but I'm a practical man. 99% of the books I buy are Kindle editions.

[Gary]

2 hours ago, Eric. said:

 

I'm an addict.  Have been for more than 20 years.

Where's that ChapStick been, Eric?!? 

[Cliff]

16 minutes ago, C Shaffer said:

Digital screws memory Cliff. I can remember page structure of a text that is not the same. The research is plain. The memories are not built the same way digitally and create dependency. The digital fosters consumption. The printed page fosters retention. You argument is about preference, and you are in the minority regarding fine furniture and metal slides. You may be in the majority about digital print, but you are wrong. ? 

I'll put my memory against anyone. Digital versus print. 

This is a statistic that is not entirely relevant either. Not everyone has the same memory capacity. 

But none of that matters because if what you say is true - the human brain will adapt. Evolution and all that. 

And that doesn't matter either. I don't think I can be classified as "wrong" without a controlled study that is repeatable. I mean, that is the standard for scientific studies. And don't get me wrong, I don't think either of us want to go searching to see if that exists. But I'd be leary of stating anyone is wrong about anything.

Also, I think Vinyl is stupid. 

No judgements on anyone. Just my opinion.

[JosephThomas]

8 minutes ago, Cliff said:

I'll put my memory against anyone. Digital versus print. 

This is a statistic that is not entirely relevant either. Not everyone has the same memory capacity. 

But none of that matters because if what you say is true - the human brain will adapt. Evolution and all that. 

And that doesn't matter either. I don't think I can be classified as "wrong" without a controlled study that is repeatable. I mean, that is the standard for scientific studies. And don't get me wrong, I don't think either of us want to go searching to see if that exists. But I'd be leary of stating anyone is wrong about anything.

Also, I think Vinyl is stupid. 

No judgements on anyone. Just my opinion.

Vinyl has better sound quality than any mp3 you downloaded over the internet and that's a fact. However, many of us can't tell the difference. In all the ranting from both of you guys you failed to realize all your points were based on anecdotal evidence from yourselves (or your wives).

I like vinyl records, sure, but I usually just play mp3s because it's convenient. I like the feel of a book most of the time, when I can, but I appreciate a lot of the perks you get from digital books so I use those sometimes too. I'm making projects with wooden slides and metal ones. Why can't you guys just accept that some things work better for different people in different situations and stop trying to classify one thing as superior.

[Eric.]

Well one is superior but that doesn't nullify different strokes for different folks.  It's of course a matter of opinion, wood vs. metal, digital vs. analog, etc...but we're arguing our opinions.  That's what it's all about.  If we didn't do that, we wouldn't have much to talk about.

PS...I'm right.

[wdwerker]

Glad I fell asleep on the couch and missed the pissing contest !  There is more subtle sounds on vinyl but the snap crackle pop is distracting as hell to me. I love a good book and have about a couple thousand. Paperbacks are more affordable but a hardback is a better read. That said reading in bed is easier on my IPad/Kindle, no light needed plus it's so easy to look up that occasional word then go back to the book. Plus I have my book with me when I am stuck in a waiting room. Still buy novels in hardback occasionally.  I think there are always going to be several sides to any subject and occasionally more than one are right depending on situations.

[Coop]

I remember years ago, going to Vegas and seeing a toilet flush automatically for the first time. Thought that was so cool. Then the next year I go back and there are no longer plastic cups for the coins sitting next to the slots. Instead they printed out pieces of paper if you were lucky. I sure miss that sound. Now, I have to go to a car wash and feed the change machine with bills in order to hear the coins hit the stainless steel cup. What's a Kindle?

[JosephThomas]

40 minutes ago, K Cooper said:

I remember years ago, going to Vegas and seeing a toilet flush automatically for the first time. Thought that was so cool. Then the next year I go back and there are no longer plastic cups for the coins sitting next to the slots. Instead they printed out pieces of paper if you were lucky. I sure miss that sound. Now, I have to go to a car wash and feed the change machine with bills in order to hear the coins hit the stainless steel cup. What's a Kindle?

Does anyone know Coop's actual age? I am guessing either 40 or 90.

[wdwerker]

I am guessing between 60 and 70

[RichardA]

2 hours ago, JosephThomas said:

Does anyone know Coop's actual age? I am guessing either 40 or 90.

I know, but I ain't telling, though Steve is closer !

[wtnhighlander]

I'll chime in and admit to being a huge digital consumer. Have been ever since the "Palm Pilot" first hit market. I love that I can carry a huge library of books, music, photos and videos in my pocket.

However, the EXPERIENCE of consuming data in digital format is considerably different from analog / printed formats, and not necessarily better. As I get older, and reach the age of reading glasses, books on a screen are more uncomfortable to read. My hearing is poor enough to negate the quality difference between LP and MP3. Digital movies seem very artificial - I don't even like watching the news in HD, because most talking heads are much harder on the eyes than you imagined.

Ok, there's my $0.03 worth (inflation, you know).

[Chestnut]

I feel like the one thing that is forgotten about this is. I own all my analog media no one can take it away from me. If you don't think that amazon can fail and disappear you might be a little bit too optimistic. Look at Kodak and Enron, we don't know what the future will hold or how bad management can get.

If you think I'm being paranoid, maybe, but i was a boy scout and they taught me to be prepared.

[Guest]

I agree Chestnut.  I either listen to music via paid streaming services (like spotify, where I don't own the music) or I buy physical media.. Occasionally I will buy a single song, but I store locally and not on the cloud.  I don't store anything on the cloud.  I don't trust the cloud.  Property rights are a foundation of a free society and I don't like to blur those lines.  

[Elroy Skimms]

15 hours ago, Cliff said:

I dare anyone to say that I somehow don't get everything I need and want out of my kindle books. When I got mine, I sold over 3000 books because I just didn't see the point anymore. I now own over 400 kindle titles. There is simply no difference.

Actually, you just nailed the difference right there. You sold 3,000 printed books. Try selling your 400 Kindle titles.

That's one of my pet peeves about digital content, it can't be resold. Whether it's a printed book or even a video game on a disc, you can still resell it later. Downloaded content cannot be resold, at least not currently.

-E

[wtnhighlander]

Down with the cloud!

[Tpt life]

Went to the bush.  No electric. Enough said. Digital is as good as the power source. That makes it great in the first world and worthless in the third. I think slides are the same.  Bearings and such seem to fade much faster than wood on wood. I wax two hundred year old drawers in wood and service ten year old slides with some regularity. I actually don't poo poo any of your preferences Cliff, but need to state the balance. I also tend to troll when guys ask for opinions and then try to combat them. Opinion wars are never won, fun though they may be. Carry on though. None of us have to live with your choices. That is the nice thing about Internet opinion polls. 

[Cliff]

On 8/18/2016 at 9:44 PM, Eric. said:

Well one is superior but that doesn't nullify different strokes for different folks.  It's of course a matter of opinion, wood vs. metal, digital vs. analog, etc...but we're arguing our opinions.  That's what it's all about.  If we didn't do that, we wouldn't have much to talk about.

PS...I'm right.

Precisely this. You can't argue facts, unless you are REDACTED DUE TO SITE RULES. I mean, we can talk about wood all day but might as well politely argue about whatever the hell we want. 

 

14 hours ago, Chestnut said:

I feel like the one thing that is forgotten about this is. I own all my analog media no one can take it away from me. If you don't think that amazon can fail and disappear you might be a little bit too optimistic. Look at Kodak and Enron, we don't know what the future will hold or how bad management can get.

If you think I'm being paranoid, maybe, but i was a boy scout and they taught me to be prepared.

And there is the one argument that has some sense. But, I ripped all my books from kindle. I have them in 5 different formats on a hard drive. I could print them and bind them professionally and put them on a shelf. 

9 hours ago, Elroy Skimms said:

Actually, you just nailed the difference right there. You sold 3,000 printed books. Try selling your 400 Kindle titles.

That's one of my pet peeves about digital content, it can't be resold. Whether it's a printed book or even a video game on a disc, you can still resell it later. Downloaded content cannot be resold, at least not currently.

-E

Actually .. did I say sold? I gave them away. You can't sell 3000 books without a yard sale for about 50 weeks straight. There is no resale value. I'm not into books for resale value. That is pointless to someone that reads books multiple times. Plus I've never seen a used book go for more than $1 anyway. 

 

1 hour ago, C Shaffer said:

Went to the bush.  No electric. Enough said. Digital is as good as the power source. That makes it great in the first world and worthless in the third. I think slides are the same.  Bearings and such seem to fade much faster than wood on wood. I wax two hundred year old drawers in wood and service ten year old slides with some regularity. I actually don't poo poo any of your preferences Cliff, but need to state the balance. I also tend to troll when guys ask for opinions and then try to combat them. Opinion wars are never won, fun though they may be. Carry on though. None of us have to live with your choices. That is the nice thing about Internet opinion polls. 

I don't mind the trolling, or some light argument. None of us were throwing tantrums. I mean, we have some difference of opinions and discussion is good, who knows, someone might make an argument so brilliant that I melt my Kindles. And oddly enough, the same time last night were were doing this I was on facebook trolling a librarian to death. But that is what you get for posting meme after meme about how great libraries are. 

 

[Eric.]

I'm not gonna melt my Kindle, I enjoy its convenience immensely.  I'm just saying there are subtle things in life that are (somewhat inexplicably) more enjoyable than others.  Reading a paperback novel vs. a digital device, spinning an old album inherited from my dad vs. popping in my earbuds, planing and scraping a board to glistening perfection vs. grinding it into submission with a random orbit sander, drinking a tasty beer from a frosty pint glass vs. an aluminum can.

It's little things, tiny differences, that give you...a feeling...I don't know, it makes you feel human...vs...robot. 

[Immortan D]

10 hours ago, Eric. said:

I'm not gonna melt my Kindle, I enjoy its convenience immensely.  I'm just saying there are subtle things in life that are (somewhat inexplicably) more enjoyable than others.  Reading a paperback novel vs. a digital device, spinning an old album inherited from my dad vs. popping in my earbuds, planing and scraping a board to glistening perfection vs. grinding it into submission with a random orbit sander, drinking a tasty beer from a frosty pint glass vs. an aluminum can.

It's little things, tiny differences, that give you...a feeling...I don't know, it makes you feel human...vs...robot. 

Yeah, eating Chinese with chopsticks!

[Cliff]

11 hours ago, Immortan D said:

Yeah, eating Chinese with chopsticks!

That always annoys me. If you are a white American, use a fork. Otherwise, who you trying to impress?

[Eric.]

14 hours ago, Cliff said:

That always annoys me. If you are a white American, use a fork. Otherwise, who you trying to impress?

Uh, Chinese food always tastes better with chopsticks.  Fact.

#cliffsarobot

Cliff, sorry for the total hijack of this thread.  Since I'm primarily responsible for it, if you want me to clean up all the crap...just say so.