Riley Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Hi all, sorry if this is the wrong forum but i need some help with miters. I am making a table using walnut backed plywood as the top and I am trying to frame the top with some cherry strips to hide the edge of the plywood. I am trying to use 90deg miters for the cherry frame. these miters are killing me! I can not get them square or to match up and i also can't keep the length right. I am using a compound miter saw to cut the 45deg on each end of my frame pieces. I am using a speed square and a starrett square to set the vertical angle and miter angle. After chopping them i then use a shooting board to touch up the cuts. So far i have made 3 full sets and none of them come out anywhere near good. Sometimes i get 3 good corners but the 4th one is bad and the more i try to adjust it the worse it gets then i end up with the board getting too short. I dont have many tools right now. I have the compound miter saw, a track saw, a low angle jack plane, hand plane, some chisels and a couple Japanese hand saws. Any advice? Im not looking for perfection but i right now i can put a quarter into my gaps. Thanks all. -Riley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 First question, Is the plywood you are trying to frame arounditself properly square? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byegge Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Cut them a little bit long. Then you can shoot them to fit perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 1 minute ago, Isaac Gaetz said: First question, Is the plywood you are trying to frame arounditself properly square? +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted October 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 The plywood is as square as i can get it using my track saw. I set my marks and use a square to make sure the track is at 90deg then clamp down the track and make my cut. when i measure corner to corner its as close as my tape measure can measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wdwerker Posted October 17, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Try figuring out which corners are slightly out of square and play with some of your scrap strips that are too short ,shim them off of your shooting board fence until you get a good fit. Take notes and number the corners so you can keep track. When you have 8 short pieces that fit all 4 corners measure the outside lengths and copy the imperfect miter for each end. It takes patience and determination. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheperd80 Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Without a picture frame/miter sled the best way imho is to go carpentry style. Cut oversized on chopsaw, check each joint individually and adjust your saw accordingly. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 I find it helpful to stack the opposing side pieces and cut the ends at once. Use your fingertips to feel when the first miter cuts are aligned, clamp them together, then cut the miter on the opposite end to make those pieces exactly the same length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Obviously, something is off. In your case, I would suspect that you have a few small errors that add up to kicking you in the back side. 1. Square ply - I get what you're doing and understand. Check the corners of the actual piece with your starrett square to make sure they're square. I usually trust their squares but, be sure this square is actually square. 2. What miter saw do you have and do you trust the 45 stop? Someone above mentioned a sled for a table saw but, you didn't list that as one of your tools. You need a way to truly verify 45 on your miter saw each time. A small error compounded 4 times makes a huge difference. 3. You mentioned that you had a shooting board but, did'nt give much info about it. Did you make it yourself? Is it dead on 45? what plane are you using to shoot it? Some pictures of what you're doing might help. Welcome to the forums. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted October 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 another problem i have is that I have to use S4S lumber from the box store because I dont have the ability to mill it myself. after looking at my stock is apparent that the strips of cherry are not perfectly flat and straight either. I may be trying to use a very exact technique with sup optimal lumber. any other ideas on how to hide the edge of the plywood? -Riley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 13 minutes ago, Riley said: another problem i have is that I have to use S4S lumber from the box store because I dont have the ability to mill it myself. after looking at my stock is apparent that the strips of cherry are not perfectly flat and straight either. I may be trying to use a very exact technique with sup optimal lumber. any other ideas on how to hide the edge of the plywood? -Riley Yep, that'll kick you in the back side too.. You could edge band it or, you could use solid lumber instead of the ply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Use your plane to square up your frame pieces as best you can. Once you get the front side of the piece flat, the shooting board should help squaring up the 2 narrow sides and back side. Then it is matter of starting at one corner and working you way around and fitting each miter as you go. Of course the last piece is the trickiest. As you cut each piece to length, start long and then sneak up on you exact length. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Your big box store has cherry? Impressive. No doubt very expensive, but impressive they have it. I have come to the realization that true perfect miters, even though it seems like it is easy, is a very advanced technique. It takes trial and error, practice and patience to figure what works for you. I'm not there yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 42 minutes ago, bleedinblue said: Your big box store has cherry? Impressive. No doubt very expensive, but impressive they have it. I have come to the realization that true perfect miters, even though it seems like it is easy, is a very advanced technique. It takes trial and error, practice and patience to figure what works for you. I'm not there yet. Box store near me has s4s mahogany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Mike beat me to it, although I was going to suggest half-laps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 6 hours ago, Chestnut said: Box store near me has s4s mahogany. Sheer craziness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Box store near me has s4s mahogany. Mine too. Teak, and ipe, and all the standard domestics too. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted October 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 I'm supper appritiative of all the help and advice. I think that out of my frustration im going to switch to a different joint. Im going to practice some half laps, box joint, and maybe a large single dove tail and see if that works better. oh and ill post some pictures along the way. thanks all, -Riley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Riley said: I'm supper appritiative of all the help and advice. I think that out of my frustration im going to switch to a different joint. Im going to practice some half laps, box joint, and maybe a large single dove tail and see if that works better. oh and ill post some pictures along the way. thanks all, -Riley I think that's a good call. What you were trying to do originally looks simple, but can be fiendishly difficult to execute, especially if you don't have a lot of experience. Looking forward to seeing your project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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