Shellac

[roughsawn]

I'll admit, I'm a rookie compared to most of you guys on here. But. I recently started horsing around with shellac. I bought the flakes, both blonde and garnett. I have 3 projects going on right now, and one of them actually got done, so, now time to finish. So, I gave shellac a try. I really like it!

I mixed up a "mother batch", where I filled up a 16oz mason jar 3/4 full, and added de-natured alcohol to the top of the flakes. Let sit, and shook occasionally until it was all dissolved. then I mixed another "working" batch from the "mother batch", 3 parts alcohol to 1 part shellac. It goes on, and dries perfectly. 

3 coats, and lightly sanded with 400. One more coat, and lightly sanded with brown paper bag paper. It turned out beautiful. I'm very impressed with the product, and the ease of application. And looks great!

If you guys have any tips, I'm all ears!

[JohnG]

I haven’t tried the flakes, but bought some Zinsser SealCoat dewaxed shellac and really like it. I also always keep a few cans of spray shellac on hand for a quick finish on some things. 

[Ronn W]

Shellac is great - both as a finish and as a sealer under other topcoats.  It is compatible with almost any topcaot you choose.  I, personally enjoy putting a french polish finish on small projects.  Check out this video.  Watch the reflection fo the light bulb as the video progresses.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=french+polishing+techniques&&view=detail&mid=80F7BE74EBBE42DF950D80F7BE74EBBE42DF950D&&FORM=VRDGAR

[treeslayer]

I use shellac on almost everything as a first and sometimes a second coat, I’ve used Zinsser but I prefer to make my own, Garnet is my favorite but they are all great, the only downside is homemade goes bad after 6 months or so I’m told, I use it up so I’m not sure if it’s a fact or not, I think the homemade is superior to store bought 

[Chestnut]

I need to mix my own from flakes. I've used shellac a LOT more recently. When i make projects that are going to interface with the little one i use shellac. I really want to mix some with ever clear and some with denatured alcohol (DNA) to see if there is much of a performance difference. I've always wanted to try and avoid the denaturing ingredients in DNA.

I agree flakes are probably better than the store bought but it's just so dang convenient. The other benefit is I think they can use a pure ethyl alcohol which helps the shelf life? Checking the SDS it doesn't appear to have the same denaturing ingredients that DNA has in it. I'm not a chemist so i could be wrong.

[difalkner]

I use flakes to make my own 2# cut and use Everclear to dissolve the flakes.  The guitars I build are French polished using this mixture but I also use it on smaller items I build.  You can get a very quick and thin finish if you're not going for the full piano gloss French polish.

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

Shellac and wax is my go to finish for just about everything. Great stuff. I get results that way that i never seemed to get with poly. Velvet smooth, very nice looking and feeling.  I just buy the pre mixed stuff in cans, though this thread may inspire me to try mixing my own. Good stuff! 

[Chet]

On 10/25/2023 at 6:12 PM, treeslayer said:

the only downside is homemade goes bad after 6 months or so I’m told

I make mine in small batches, usually enough for just the current project.  Usually just one or two cups, sometimes even 1/2 cup.

[Coop]

Will a coat of shellac over several recent coats of ARS, cover the off gassing? 

[Chestnut]

53 minutes ago, Coop said:

Will a coat of shellac over several recent coats of ARS, cover the off gassing? 

No.

[Coop]

On 10/26/2023 at 2:57 PM, Chestnut said:

No.

You sound unsure?   Thanks

[gee-dub]

You will occasionally read from some folks that have trouble with shellac.  I must have the shellac gene because I seem to get away with murder with the stuff .  I use Zinsser Seal Coat as a sealer as well as a finish.  I add dye for coloration when I don't want the pigment issues that come with stains and open grained woods like oak or ash.  I use it as a barrier coat between almost anything if there is a chance of a compatibility issue.  I have pretty much walked away from button or flake shellac since the Seal Coat has a longer shelf life, is very consistent between batches and can be colored or thinned to suit my needs.  I'm glad you do well with it.  I buy it by the gallon despite being a one-man shop and retired to boot.

[roughsawn]

On 10/25/2023 at 8:12 PM, treeslayer said:

 the only downside is homemade goes bad after 6 months or so I’m told, I use it up so I’m not sure if it’s a fact or not

Have you heard...how will you know if it goes bad? What will happen to the product?

[difalkner]

On 10/26/2023 at 7:55 PM, roughsawn said:

Have you heard...how will you know if it goes bad? What will happen to the product?

Typically it won't dry, just sort of stays tacky or really soft.  When I mix my own and do a French polish it's dry to the touch within a minute - very fast drying.

[roughsawn]

So, when that happens, do you just wipe it off with pure de-natured alcohol...and start over?

[difalkner]

On 10/26/2023 at 9:53 PM, roughsawn said:

So, when that happens, do you just wipe it off with pure de-natured alcohol...and start over?

Oh no, not at all.  That's just part of the French polishing procedure.  It goes on with a pad and just a couple of drops of Shellac and as you rub it dries and you're polishing the finish.

Here's a short video I made a couple of years ago and it shows a time lapse of the French polishing (literally a 10 minute finish) - 

 

[Tpt life]

I think the question is if you apply it after it has gone bad. Yes, you can usually soften with alcohol and scrape it off, but it saves a lot of time to test apply old finish on scrap. 

[dwilliam]

It's great to hear that you're having a positive experience with shellac. Your approach to mixing a "mother batch" and a "working" batch sounds efficient. As you continue to work with shellac, you might explore using different types of brushes or pads for application, depending on your projects. Keep experimenting and enjoying your woodworking journey!

[Woodworking_Hobby]

I need to do a little more research and was not sure if there was a source that talked about the differences between using shellac vs penetrating oils like Danish.  On my past projects I have been using Tired and True Danish or varnish oil as I liked the more "natural" finishes, they were super easy to use, and I like the look they gave my cheery or hard maple projects.  Getting some shellac flakes and mixing up my own batch of finish seems like another good route to go and also seems like a pretty "natural" finish that is easy to use. Just wondering if there are times you would pick one type of finish over the other and if there are any key things to know before I try to use shellac on my next project. 

[JohnG]

On 10/26/2023 at 5:25 PM, gee-dub said:

You will occasionally read from some folks that have trouble with shellac.  I must have the shellac gene because I seem to get away with murder with the stuff .  I use Zinsser Seal Coat as a sealer as well as a finish.  I add dye for coloration when I don't want the pigment issues that come with stains and open grained woods like oak or ash.  I use it as a barrier coat between almost anything if there is a chance of a compatibility issue.  I have pretty much walked away from button or flake shellac since the Seal Coat has a longer shelf life, is very consistent between batches and can be colored or thinned to suit my needs.  I'm glad you do well with it.  I buy it by the gallon despite being a one-man shop and retired to boot.

The SealCoat does last a long time. I could only find gallon cans locally a few years ago, and I still have some on hand. I keep a little bottle of thinned SealCoat and a bottle straight from the can. Dries fast, easy to use, and I don’t mind the smell. 
I believe they have fixed this, but StopLoss bags used to blister if you put shellac in them. Mine did that but still haven’t leaked or had any other issue from the blistering. 

[Mark J]

@Woodworking_Hobby, you might find Bob Flexner's book "Understanding Wood Finishes" an interesting read.  

[Tom King]

I have a spray can of Zinnser shellac that must be twenty years old, but still works.  I've never used much at the time.  I shellacked a "new" bare wood coping saw handle with it last week.

[difalkner]

Mixing your own with flakes and DNA (or Everclear) is really a different product than the canned finishes by Zinnser.  They may both be Shellac much in the same way a Ferrari and a Volkswagen are both cars and they'll both get you to your destination.  It might be easier and less maintenance involved to just get the Volkswagen but the Ferrari is the one people will turn their heads to see as it goes by. 

Even though my preference is mixing my own and doing a French polish I also have a can of Zinnser when I just need a quick drying finish on something temporarily.  It's not what I would ever use for a show piece but it does what it's suppose to.