Centers for Festool Domino?

[TomInNC]

Does anyone make something like a dowel center but for the different size Dominos? It seems like this would be useful, but I can't find anything online. 

[gee-dub]

One of the benefits of the Domino is that tenons don't have to be perfectly laid out, the mortises in the joining pieces just have to match each other.  Position your pieces where they go and mark a single line across both.  With a dowel-center type device one would have to cut one mortise, insert the domino-center press the pieces together accurately, separate them, and strike a line using the Domino-center dimple as a locator.  Seems like you would introduce more potential for error than gain benefit.  Maybe you have a special use case?  If so you could make your own pretty easily.

[BillyJack]

On 8/13/2023 at 12:30 PM, TomInNC said:

Does anyone make something like a dowel center but for the different size Dominos? It seems like this would be useful, but I can't find anything online. 

Something equivalent to a Domono?

[BillyJack]

Do you have a biscuit jointer?

[Ronn W]

If you are talking about dominoes joining 2 pieces of different thickness and, say,  you want to center the thinner piece on the thicker piece then measure the thickness of the thicker piece in mm and set the domino to cut at 1/2 of that dimension.  Then do the same for the thinner piece.  That willprobably get you within 1/2 MM of being centered. 

Option 2: say you want to center an 18 MM piece on a 26 mm piece - then mill 2 small boards to be (26-18)/2 = 4 mm thick.  Sandwich the 18mm piece between the two 4mm pieces so that the total thickness is 26mm then place it next to the 26mm piece, mark you line where the center of the dominoes wil be and ream both - perfect center.

The solution depends on what, exactly you are trying to do.  Good luck.

 

[JohnG]

On 8/13/2023 at 2:45 PM, BillyJack said:

Something equivalent to a Domono?

No, these-

 

The thing about dowel centers is that when you go to drill the mating hole, you can see the dimple as you place your drill bit, or can use a light to see the dimple at the bottom of a drilling guide. But with the domino having a dimple where the domino is to be cut doesn’t help, you won’t be able to see it to align to. It’d be a guess at best. The benefit to the way domino/biscuits are cut is that you can dry fit the pieces and strike a line across the 2 pieces and you’re set. The reference fence takes care of the depth so you only have to worry about left/right and even that is forgiving if you use a wider cut setting. 

[BillyJack]

I wouldn’t waste my time with those..

[curlyoak]

There are lots of you tube videos on the subject. After viewing the you tubes get some scraps for practice. It is easy.

[Mark J]

19 hours ago, TomInNC said:

Does anyone make something like a dowel center but for the different size Dominos? It seems like this would be useful, but I can't find anything online. 

Are you trying to place mortises for Domino style floating tenons without using a Domino machine?

[curlyoak]

 Watch the video...

[TomInNC]

On 8/13/2023 at 3:07 PM, JohnG said:

No, these-

 

The thing about dowel centers is that when you go to drill the mating hole, you can see the dimple as you place your drill bit, or can use a light to see the dimple at the bottom of a drilling guide. But with the domino having a dimple where the domino is to be cut doesn’t help, you won’t be able to see it to align to. It’d be a guess at best. The benefit to the way domino/biscuits are cut is that you can dry fit the pieces and strike a line across the 2 pieces and you’re set. The reference fence takes care of the depth so you only have to worry about left/right and even that is forgiving if you use a wider cut setting. 

I've used a Domino plenty of times. The specific use case that I had in mind was locating tenons on the underside of table tops. It seems pretty popular to use a slab leg on live edge pieces. A really quick way to do this would be to cut mortises on the leg, insert a domino center that had something like a large cross hatch on it that would be visible when using the Domino, and then just press the leg into the underside of the slab to transfer the layout marks. 

[BillyJack]

When we did slab tops, we used painted  steel bases under the tops.

[wtnhighlander]

I've seen dominos placed for slab legs by clamping a straight edge across the underside of the top, and using that as a reference to mark the mortice location in both pieces. Also serves as a fence to reference the machine for plunging into the middle of the slab top.

If you still want the 'center mark' route, take a couple of dominos and press one end into a rubber stamp ink pad. 

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=rubber+stamp+ink+pad&adgrpid=58883126114&hvadid=664374770298&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=1026012&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3654154671031521625&hvtargid=kwd-306253537853&hydadcr=16340_13574809&tag=hydsma-20&ref=pd_sl_1m94phd34y_e

[Coop]

@TomInNC, questioning you without questioning you. Would this be a strong enough support with just the end of the leg in contact with the top (along with the Dominos) without the aid of an apron or such? 

[curlyoak]

I do woodworking part time for hire. I take responsibility for the projects I do. If I installed a top on dominoes into the top of the legs I would expect to see that table back in my shop with an angry customer. The leverage of a table leg against the dominoes would overwhelm the joint and fail. If it was a very low coffee table there is a chance it would stay together. I still would rather conform with an apron. Why don't you like aprons? My preference is overbuilt and become an heirloom. Not firewood.

[TomInNC]

I agree completely that a simple domino connection between a slab and the top wouldn't be strong enough. What I was really more interested in doing was something like the Nakashima style stuff (see the link below) where instead of a traditional apron you add additional supports between the legs at the base of the legs. 

 

https://www.benhamdesignconcepts.com/tables/coffee-tables/naka-coffee-table/

[curlyoak]

On 8/15/2023 at 6:06 AM, TomInNC said:

Nakashima style

That style uses massive through tenons. Far more than any domino. And how do you allow for wood movement?

[BillyJack]

On 8/15/2023 at 5:06 AM, TomInNC said:

I agree completely that a simple domino connection between a slab and the top wouldn't be strong enough. What I was really more interested in doing was something like the Nakashima style stuff (see the link below) where instead of a traditional apron you add additional supports between the legs at the base of the legs. 

 

https://www.benhamdesignconcepts.com/tables/coffee-tables/naka-coffee-table/

I’m gonna tell you a lil secret about some of those high end pieces….They weren’t designed for a family of 5…

[TomInNC]

On 8/15/2023 at 6:58 AM, curlyoak said:

That style uses massive through tenons. Far more than any domino. And how do you allow for wood movement?

If I were use dominos to attach the slab lab, I was thinking that I would use several 14mm dominos. On the wood movement issue, we discussed this a while back. Wtnhighlander laid everything out in a lot of detail, and several others chimed in regarding how Nakashima tables are built. 

 

 

[BillyJack]

That’s  why those tables use figure 8’s or Z clips. I would get past the Dominos and move onto something that will work..

[BillyJack]

.Here are tables with Dominos in the legs attached to the top. I did not agree with the design, but often I’m given plans and told to build and stay out of it. My comments are noted , but the  customer makes the final decision.

 

[Chestnut]

6 hours ago, TomInNC said:

I agree completely that a simple domino connection between a slab and the top wouldn't be strong enough. What I was really more interested in doing was something like the Nakashima style stuff (see the link below) where instead of a traditional apron you add additional supports between the legs at the base of the legs. 

 

https://www.benhamdesignconcepts.com/tables/coffee-tables/naka-coffee-table/

For a design like this little strength is needed. The weight of the top will be enough to keep the top from shifting on the legs. The base is extremely light so even figure 8 fasteners would likely be strong enough to secure the top to the legs. For designs similar to this we've done just that multiple times. These legs are held on by figure 8 fasteners. This nakashima inspred table top is held on with figure 8 fasteners. This top is also held on by figure 8 fasteners.

As far as doing dominoes in the middle of a slab of wood or plywood. Using a strait edge and transferring marks is a great way to get dominoes positioned quickly and easily. In this build i show the strait edge being used but don't really fully explain the details. In my modern end tables i show it a bit better.

To make it easy I'll just explain as best i can with pictures. To start some layout lines to where the center of the mortise will go is needed. It doesn't matter which piece you mark first as the technique will transfer from one to the other. In this example I'm working rotated 90 degrees but the technique is the same. I started with marks on the face and then clamped on a fence in the orientation required.

The main "trick" here is to use the bottom of the domino mortise making tool as the reference surface the fence is put in it's 0 degree folded away as showen in the picture above. Beings that the tool is rather large the reference marks may need to be extended a long way to improve visibility. Holding the tool base against the fence plunge your mortises. For this example i used multiple plunges close together to make a long mortise. I then use shop made tenon stock to replicate a "router" floating tenon.

To make sure that the mortise on the mating piece is in the correct spot you need to be diligent with the orientation of faces. DO NOT remove the fence shown above as it's really helpful for layout line transfer.

In the above example the outside face is what we can see and the back side is the inside face. The inside face goes against the fence, layout marks are made on the outside face. To make the mortises place the inside face (the face that was against the fence) down on a flat surface (table saw table or good flat work bench) then put the domino joiner tool on the same surface and plunge using the reference marks. Again the domino tool will have the fence in the folded away position and the reference surface is the bottom of the machine. See picture one. if the reference surfaces are maintained the piece should drop into place along the fence perfectly. If you kept the fence in place you can put a floating tenon in the mortise and do a test fit.

Practice this a few times. Once you figure out this technique it's incredibly useful. I've used it on almost every casework project I've done. All 3 8 drawer dressers, and multiple other cabinetry projects as well as the above mentioned end tables.

All that said a simple stub tenon would also be strong enough and would be pretty easy to mark out and hand cut.

[BillyJack]

I’m personally going to pass on this one. I have nothing against Doninos, but you need more than that for this top support..

 

Ive considering buying a Domino, but not for an application like this..

[curlyoak]

With an apron a corner 45 degree block in each corner with a slot hole for screws.  And/Or a slot in the apron near the top. the end of a small piece of wood cut a rabit so the leftover fits the slot. Then a slotted screw hole. Couple of ways and Im sure there are many other ways too.

[DerekMPBS]

When I was building miniature kits, I would sometimes reinforce joints by drilling holes on each side and inserting a wire pin to help strengthen the joint.  In that case, I would drill the hole(s) in one part, then use a wire that protruded just a tad from the hold.  Paint some red paint on the end, then line up the parts and press them together.  The paint would transfer to the other part, marking the exact position where the hole needed to be drilled.

You could do something similar with a domino by cutting one so that it is just proud of the surface of one part, then painting the end with a paint or chalk, and then pusing the parts together.  Since you would be most interested in the edges of the domino, you could remove some material from the center of the domino, just enough so the edges would contact your piece well.  Depending on what you are locating, this method could be faster than striking lines on the second piece.