Coop Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Really neat looking form there nut, hope it comes out well for ya. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Looks Good ! Always smart to do a practice run ! I've got a bunch of those Jorgensen lightweight bar clamps that are at least 30 + years old and they still work fine. Some of them are on a batch of shelves I glued up Friday afternoon. I ran out of enough Bessey's and went old school for the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan G Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 13 hours ago, Chestnut said: I'm using west system 207 for the bent lam because it's what i got. Is that the clear one? how much do you have to mix up for a “glue up” like that? what was your application method? Curious how you are (or will) applying it in an appropriate amount on a wider surface like a chair arm. Lots of ? Sorry.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 I just pulled my first attempt out of the form and this was WAY easier than i was building it up in my mind. The epoxy worked GREAT too. I used a block plane to clean up the sides and he shavings are coming off full width and when i pull them apart the epoxy line of the shaving holds better for 1/8" either side and the wood around breaks away. I think this is a success. I made 4 legs for a 4 legged stool so i'm going to strength test 1 leg just to see what it can take. It's going to be a very subjective test. 1 hour ago, Alan G said: Is that the clear one? how much do you have to mix up for a “glue up” like that? what was your application method? Curious how you are (or will) applying it in an appropriate amount on a wider surface like a chair arm. Lots of ? Sorry.... Nope good questions. It is the "Special Clear" the hardener has developed a very slight amber color after sitting for 3 years but mysteriously after mixing it's completely clear. I mixed up 2 pumps worth for 7 plys at 4" wide. 6 glue layers 4" x 38" sp 970 sq in of surface area. I'll probably do the same 2 pumps when i do the arms. The chair arms are going to be same thickness ply but the over all thickness will be thinner than my trial run. I think west system is around an oz a pump. I did the math on it once and know that' it's $1.25 a batch for a double batch this costs $2.50. This is one of the places West system shines. Yeah the start up cost is $$$ but same batch from box store stuff would have been like $10 with less strength and poor properties argueably.. I used a piece of wood but when i do the wider surfaces i'm going to need a brush or applicator the way i did it didn't really work the greatest. Nope i like questions they sometimes help me as much as they can help others, it's why i post here. Quote Looks Good ! Always smart to do a practice run ! I've got a bunch of those Jorgensen lightweight bar clamps that are at least 30 + years old and they still work fine. Some of them are on a batch of shelves I glued up Friday afternoon. I ran out of enough Bessey's and went old school for the rest. @wdwerker Yeah i really like the Jorgensen clamps. When i heard they went out of business i bought everything my local store had. Then menards started selling a bessy clone that was $9 for a 12" $10 for a 24" and $12 for a 36" I've bought a bunch of them and they are worth double what they are selling them for. Those are the green handled clamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Closeup of the lines. Not invisible but i think i can live with them. I because of what i was doing i didn't get good clamping pressure so i think it will be better with the real deal. Over all shape size. Strength test passed i was not able to with my body weight or leverage break it. I could get it to flex about 1/8" at most. So those who say epoxy isn't strong enough in bent lam apparently never tried it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Very nice. Think that Cherry stick is going to look phenomenal on the arms and I definitely agree the figure and sap wood will pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Drew, how much spring back did you have on your test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Looks really good Drew! 2 hours ago, Chestnut said: ...I used a piece of wood but when i do the wider surfaces i'm going to need a brush or applicator the way i did it didn't really work the greatest. 3x5 bondo spreaders work well. 2 hours ago, Chestnut said: Closeup of the lines. Not invisible but i think i can live with them. I because of what i was doing i didn't get good clamping pressure so i think it will be better with the real deal. Funny how observant woodworkers are about things like this when the normal person not only wouldn't notice but wouldn't even think to look LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan G Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Chestnut said: menards started selling a bessy clone Are those the F clamp style or parallel style you have? I’ve seen them at menards and wondered how they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Chet said: Drew, how much spring back did you have on your test? About 1/4" so a little bit but not to terrible. I have a feeling if you go with more and thiner plys the spring back will be less. 53 minutes ago, Alan G said: Are those the F clamp style or parallel style you have? I’ve seen them at menards and wondered how they were. F style. They aren't perfect but they are great for the price. To answer your question from the shop thread. The PJ882HH is awesome. Everything adjust smoothly and there is no fuss. 1 hour ago, pkinneb said: Looks really good Drew! 3x5 bondo spreaders work well. Funny how observant woodworkers are about things like this when the normal person not only wouldn't notice but wouldn't even think to look LOL Yeah i should buy some of them. I just grabbed a silicone spatula that was starting to get worn out from the kitchen. I'm also easily my worst critic. The people that would notice the little things, you guys, only see pictures and a lot of stuff doesn't come through on pictures. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 Interesting. I was debating what glue to go with...if west systems works out for your arms I may just do the same. I'm going to buy the kit for the main glue up anyway. The only other time I've done true bent lam was for my daughters crib. It was walnut... I didn't know any better at the time and used titebond 2, it worked perfectly and even though I didn't know a danged thing then, and had a third of the level tooling I have now, I'd accept the results I got in a heartbeat. It has me questioning if I need a specialty glue for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 12 minutes ago, bleedinblue said: Interesting. I was debating what glue to go with...if west systems works out for your arms I may just do the same. I'm going to buy the kit for the main glue up anyway. The only other time I've done true bent lam was for my daughters crib. It was walnut... I didn't know any better at the time and used titebond 2, it worked perfectly and even though I didn't know a danged thing then, and had a third of the level tooling I have now, I'd accept the results I got in a heartbeat. It has me questioning if I need a specialty glue for this. In the morris chair vids Marc admits that either David Marks or William Ng used regular wood glue for all of his bent laminations. I think the only thing with wood glue is that you will get MORE spring back than other adhesives. The "debate" is that because epoxy isn't water based it doesn't "penetrate" the wood. Which i find misleading and incorrect. If that was the case our finished would just sit on top of the wood and not adhere well. I stumbled upon this site and after reading it i wasn't really concerned about epoxy for bent lam. I realize the penetration is through end grain but it's fir end grain so it's not like it's going through red oak straws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chestnut Posted January 29, 2018 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 Figured i'd throw a few pictures up. I got all the arm laminations sanded and have the first arm in the form for glueup. Picture of the arm tops. The bookmatch curly is going to be AWESOME. I already know which chair i'm calling dibs on. Forget TV i'll just stare at the curly grain all evening. Top down view of curly. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 That cherry is so damn sexy. I'd stare to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan G Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 I used TB iii when I built my Morris chair. It was a more traditional style not Marc’s version. Still had bent lam arms. When I took the arms out of the form I had maybe a 1/16” spring back. The issue for me was really more with the open time of the glue and trying to get all the laminations in the form. That is where I can see epoxy would have an advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan G Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 32 minutes ago, Chestnut said: The bookmatch curly is going to be AWESOME. That cherry looks incredible! Those chairs are going to be beautiful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 That's going to look awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 I was just watching the next videos that I'll need for the project and i couldn't help but noticing that the rear mortise and tenon for the arm is incredibly redundant. The arm gets glued to the top rail with the front mortise and a rear mortise. With the long grain to long grain glue along the top rail couldn't one nix the rear mortise? I included a graphic showing the long glue joint in blue and the large tenons in yellow with my opinion of a redundant tenon in red. My main worry is drilling strait through the arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AceHoleInOne Posted January 29, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 Think about the use of the piece. Chairs get a lot different pressures applied to them. More is better. Unless your arm radius is 100% tight to the top-rail, not all of it is going to glue down 100% tight no matter how many clamps you use. That's my 2 cents. -Ace- 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan G Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 If nothing else it will help with alignment of the arm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chestnut Posted February 6, 2018 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 Life has been getting in the way so i got slowed down a bit on this. My goal was to be finishing by February 15th and i don't think that is going to happen. Oh well I've been having fun so it's not like all is lost. Last week i got all of the arms glued together and all in all I'm happy with them but some of the glue lines are a lot more visible than i'd like. It's not even along the whole line so i have a feeling that i have some low or high spots in my bending form. Too late now. Beings that i have the arms glued i could take the side rails and transfer the arc on the the pieces and cut the top and bottom apart. Side rail. I used 1 solid piece for the side rails because i felt it was wasteful and didn't allow the best possible grain match to make the sides from 2 pieces. This does change the order of things making the arms necessary to get the first dry fit together. The gap between the top and bottom will be great enough that this isn't necessary looks wise, which is why i went after this more to reduce waste. I determined that you need at least a 9" wide board to do this and the stock i had was 10.5" wide. Measuring and laying out arc. I've been using the ruler i bought from BCTW and i have to say it's become one of my favorite rules quite quickly. I love the triangle shape. Cut the top rail off the bottom rail because the curves we so similar when i made the form i didn't bother retracing the arc from the other side of the arm. I did how ever take 1/2" from between the 2 pieces to use as spacers for the vertical slats. I cleaned up the bottom arch with my spokeshave and then transferd it to the top, making sure that there was enough material to accomplish what i wanted. I'm hoping that this is going to offer the best possible grain march for this technique. Obviously i'm the only one that would ever notice anyway but i'm making these chairs for my own house so the client appreciates the extra effort. Some of that sap wood will show but I'm ok with that there are touches of sapwood all over on these chairs. I did my best to make sure that the sapwood doesn't have any hard strait lines with heartwood so it should look decent and tie together won't know till I'm done. I used my beautiful LN 140 skew block plane to clean up the tenons and did the first dry fit of the chairs and i'm very very happy with the results. One of the chairs with the arms balanced. The ends aren't trimmed but the sides are cleaned up not sure if the glue lines are visible. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom King Posted February 6, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 Looking great! I like everything about it. On setting deadlines: I don't do deadlines. "Don't do" means: don't think about it, much less try to predict a finishing point, so there is nothing to discuss about a deadline. I don't do deadlines for paying jobs, and I damn sure don't do deadlines for working on my own stuff. Ask my Wife. One of the most common questions I get asked is when will it be finished. My answer is always the same. It will be finished when there is nothing left to do on it. The other question that goes along with that is how much will it cost. I've always done it the same way. I find out what it costs to build something by building it. We'll know when it's finished. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 Drew the chairs are looking great!! Is there an accent piece in the arms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Tom King said: ...when will it be finished. My answer is always the same. It will be finished when there is nothing left to do on it... LOL I love this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 Very nice man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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