Friendly Woodworkers

[jplemons]

I wanted to share my impression of woodworkers via an anecdote, so stay with me a bit.

My family and I spent two weeks recently in her hometown of Cleveland. One day we went to the Cleveland Flea, which is a huge flea market/craft/food/music thing. As we were walking around I noticed a photographer who does similar work to what I've been experimenting with for about three years. It's a photo transfer process where a photo is transferred to different materials. I've done mine on wood and aluminum as well as some small tile pieces. I've used gelatin, regular gesso and a process developed by an artist in Colorado who now markets the supplies. I've shown my work at a gallery and even sold a few pieces to non-relatives, lol. I have a showing coming up and just finished working on the piece that will show there -- made the frame with splines and all. Anyway, I'm always very open with my process to people who are curious. I tell them whatever it is they want to know. I'm not threatened that anyone will steal a secret process and make millions while I struggle along. I see my transfers as just a part of my whole process. However, as I approached this guy in Cleveland I saw that his transfers to tile were nice and clean. I wondered which process he used, so I asked him. He said it's a photo transfer. I said, yes, I get that. I do a similar pe rocess and have used a few methods, which do you prefer? I'm not telling you how I do it, was his response. Wow, I thought. What an arse. If I had been 20 years younger I'd have told him what he could do with his tiles. Instead, I just walked away. His photos weren't good to my eye. A lot of "tilted" perspective stuff. Yawn.

So I started walking some more and saw a woman with some photos transferred to wood. Cool, I thought. I like doing transfers to wood when I want the grain to show through. Adds a cool element. Anyway, I started up a similar conversation with her, and her response was funny. She started putting down image transfer because hers are real art. Hers are actually printed on the wood using a "special" printer that basically burns the image into the wood. Oh, I said. That's cool. Yeah, she said, image transfer are so child-like. It's like elementary art projects. That's not art. She said this as I was looking at some her photos that were actually scans of vintage work, unattributed, and then printed onto the wood. Wow, I thought.

Either I just met the two biggest asshole artist in the entire state of Ohio, or I've been naive in my thinking about other artists. Now, I realize that some artists don't like to share all the details about their process, which is fine. However, most of the ones I've met locally are pretty open and enjoy describing not only the meaning of their work but also the how of their work.

Which brings us back to woodworkers, which I'm a complete neophyte in both practice and community. The next day, we are in a little suburb called Tremont because there's an incredible chocolate shop there called Lily's. And the church from Deer Hunter is just around the corner. Inside Lily's I was admiring a cool live-edge table with metal legs. The craftsmen had resewed the slab and opened it up as a book match, leaving a live-edge part about 1/3 of the way in the middle of the table. It was nice. I asked the owner about it and she said the guy next door did it, so I meandered into there as my wife and her sisters and niece went to clothing store. I wasn't expecting what I found.

Inside the building, which was an old house converted into a woodworking studio, were a whole bunch of chairs, slabs, mock ups and Festool. The only guy in there welcomed me and my mother in law. I told him that I saw his table next door and really admired it. He told me that a lot of people told him not to do the table that way with the gap, but he did it because that's what he wanted to do, lol, and like the way it looked. We started talking and I was looking at some chair legs he was working on and noticed that he used dominoes for everything. I also noticed that he made his own dominoes, so I started talking tools and told him I was just learning how to do things. And he was incredibly gracious and outgoing. He showed me the chairs he was working on for client, explained how he made the templates and cut the parts out, sanded, used dominoes, etc. He answered every question I had, which weren't too many because I didn't want to take away too much time. I left there feeling great. 

Which is the experience I've had so far with just about every woodworker I've met. I'm not sure what the difference is, but I was sharing my impressions with my wife and pointed out that i can post a question about how to do something, or what the technique is for a certain method on this board or many others and within a few hours I'd have some advice. People will share. Let alone the information I can get from Marc's free videos and countless others on YouTube. 

So, that's a longwinded way of saying thanks to woodworkers and craftsmen out there who not only share their knowledge but seem to actually relish in the sharing of that knowledge.

Here's a link to the place in Cleveland if anyone is interested. I'm pretty sure the guy I met was Alex Sutula.

http://www.furnituremakercleveland.com/bio.php

 

[RichardA]

Interesting!  But not so unusual.  Some things are evolving, and those involved want to keep their methods from the public, in order to derive a benefit.  Wood workers on the other hand, are redoing a centuries old process! There isn't to much that's new in wood work, with the exception of the tools ! There are designs that are difficult to quantify, but for the most part, the construction is the same as it has been for many years. Those that work in wood will gladly share knowledge because it's not a secret process, it's been here as long as the first club used to hunt meat!

[Pwk5017]

Agreed, I havent met a woodworker--professional or amateur--that wasnt more than willing to share knowledge with full disclosure. I think Richard nailed it; there are no snake oils in woodworking. Your first two examples were of people using methods that set them apart. Methods that most of us could replicate with the right equipment/process. This means they are only successful as long as they maintain this exclusivity in the market. Im sure this is why they gave you the cold shoulder. If I purchased a laser cutter, I could replicate what your second artist did in a wink. Woodworking on the other hand is the opposite. It is the skill of the individual and not the process or equipment. I appreciate how open everyone is with information and enthusiasm for the craft. In turn, I am always the same with new woodworkers I meet. 

 

[treeslayer]

5 hours ago, RichardA said:

it's been here as long as the first club used to hunt meat!

i use a white oak club with walnut inlay to hunt meat everything said here is true, i will help other woodworkers just as other woodworkers helped me when i started and they are still helping me to this day

[RichardA]

3 hours ago, Lester Burnham said:

I've yet to encounter a woodworker that isn't willing to explain, usually in great detail, how to do something.

 

Talented builder. From that guy's site.

http://www.furnituremakercleveland.com/showgallery.php?catid=47

That chest of drawers is beautiful. Building something like this is my goal.

Patience Grasshopper, you're on the right track!

[Rapid Roger]

When asked how I did something or do something (usually a non woodworker) I just say.... "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you"..... It is just a joke of course, I'm always ready to talk, tell and show anyone anything that I've done that they are interested in.

I've even taken pictures and posted them on wood working forums of how I make wooden vases with a scroll saw.

 

[trialbyfire]

When asked how I did something or do something (usually a non woodworker) I just say.... "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you"..... It is just a joke of course, I'm always ready to talk, tell and show anyone anything that I've done that they are interested in.

I've even taken pictures and posted them on wood working forums of how I make wooden vases with a scroll saw.

 

You made this on a scroll saw!!??

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Chet]

I think Richard explained it well but it is a shame that the two photographers were such jerks with their process, maybe they don't realize that talking about there process or even boasting to a degree might help them sell their wares.  If they are enthusiastic about their process potential buyers become enthusiastic also and open their wallets.  Theres a photographer named Robert Kawika Sheer that we have seen at fairs in California that takes very unique pictures and isn't at all shy about sharing the whole process with anyone that asks.  After listening to him we bought a piece. He even has a video on his sight explaining the process of his photos which he openly admits he stumbled across accidentally.   I think when you have the confidence about your skill you are not afraid to share, when you don't have confidence you can come off as a jerk because you are maybe trying to hide your inabilities.

Robert Kawika Sheer

[Rapid Roger]

3 hours ago, trialbyfire said:

You made this on a scroll saw!!??

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Well, yea, sort of.

It starts  the table saw of course and there is a lot of sanding in the end but, the hard part is done on a scroll saw. Most people think it was done with a lathe and wonder how I hollowed it out but, I don't own a lathe. And to make matters worse when I tell them it was made with three 3/4" x 8" x 8" boards (walnut, maple and cherry) they question my sanity.

I may just have to show you the tricks some day......"But then I would have to kill you"

 

[krtwood]

I would always run into this on the Etsy forums.  Someone who crochets baby hats getting into a twist because someone had the nerve to ask for her "intellectual property".  You didn't invent crochet, hats, or babies.  Get over yourself.

It takes a lot to be a woodworker.  You have to invest in the tools and invest in yourself to develop the skills.  Most people who go through that process come out the other end (there really is no end) having developed their own mix of all the influences they've encountered along the way and don't need to be straight out copying anybody.  If all somebody wants to do is copy then they probably don't have what it takes to compete with somebody who has really developed their skills.

[Chestnut]

1 hour ago, krtwood said:

Someone who crochets baby hats getting into a twist because someone had the nerve to ask for her "intellectual property". 

Intentional pun?

I never understood the whole not sharing or not being nice part. I don't have much to contribute here but i have my places where some could consider me mediocre. Odds are someone isn't paying me because i have a unique idea, someone is paying me because they don't want to do the work them selves. If i had a unique idea i wouldn't be a minion at some company counting the minutes till 5:00/

[Coop]

OP, can you show us examples of your photo transfers to wood and metals?

[wtnhighlander]

I think working with wood is like ageing whiskey in a charred white oak barrel. It mellows you.

[jplemons]

1 hour ago, K Cooper said:

OP, can you show us examples of your photo transfers to wood and metals?

Here's my most recent piece. It's 22x36. I also made the frame -- my first.

 

 

[Coop]

Is this to wood or metal? The frame is cool and I suspect the piece is as well, but due to the glare in the pic, it can't be appreciated as well as it should be. Do you have a web site?

[jplemons]

Sorry about the photo -- kinda ironic, lol. It's a transfer to aluminum, but it's actually three different photos mixed together and then transferred to the aluminum sheet. 

I let my Website lapse awhile ago and haven't gotten around to getting it back up. It's seems this woodworking thing has taken over a lot of my spare time. I'll try to take some better ones and repost. 

[wtnhighlander]

That's a cool piece, JP. I've never seen a photo transfer to aluminum like that. Nice frame, too. If you ever post a build journal, I'd love to see the transfer process, as well as the wood work.

[RichardA]

7 hours ago, jplemons said:

Sorry about the photo -- kinda ironic, lol. It's a transfer to aluminum, but it's actually three different photos mixed together and then transferred to the aluminum sheet. 

I let my Website lapse awhile ago and haven't gotten around to getting it back up. It's seems this woodworking thing has taken over a lot of my spare time. I'll try to take some better ones and repost. 

Working with wood does that to folks, it captures them and rarely lets go!

[gee-dub]

My professional photographer friend is shocked and amazed at the way folks on "my forums" share and interact and even do tutorials to show each other how things are done and can be done differently.  In "his forums" techniques and methods are tightly secreted.  If anyone is naive or brash enough to ask "how did you get that shadowing effect?" they will either get crickets (at best) or blasted (at worst).

[h3nry]

1 hour ago, gee-dub said:

My professional photographer friend is shocked and amazed at the way folks on "my forums" share and interact and even do tutorials to show each other how things are done and can be done differently.  In "his forums" techniques and methods are tightly secreted.  If anyone is naive or brash enough to ask "how did you get that shadowing effect?" they will either get crickets (at best) or blasted (at worst).

A naïve question ... but what is the point in participating in "his" forums? What do they talk about if they're not talking about photography?

[krtwood]

7 hours ago, h3nry said:

A naïve question ... but what is the point in participating in "his" forums? What do they talk about if they're not talking about photography?

Photographers talk about gear.  There is constant turnover of new stuff so there is always fresh debate over which 100% crop of a brick wall or blurry flower in the background is better.  They argue over brands like they are sports teams.  

[gee-dub]

13 hours ago, h3nry said:

A naïve question ... but what is the point in participating in "his" forums? What do they talk about if they're not talking about photography?

 

6 hours ago, krtwood said:

Photographers talk about gear.  There is constant turnover of new stuff so there is always fresh debate over which 100% crop of a brick wall or blurry flower in the background is better.  They argue over brands like they are sports teams.  

krtwood's got it as far as I can tell from a few brief visits.  I was hoping for the kind of help with lighting, settings and content like I am used to here for example; nope.  Not a bad thing.  Just different than I am used to.

[mat60]

12 hours ago, krtwood said:

Photographers talk about gear.  They argue over brands like they are sports teams.

Some like to argue about what is the best tools and table saws...What ever one has is the best...LOL

[Pwk5017]

Yeah, try getting fishing spots out of a fly fishing forum. Granted, people are more than willing to help on casting technique, tying(sometimes), and gear, but if you get into spot burning online, God help you. 

[Chestnut]

14 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said:

Yeah, try getting fishing spots out of a fly fishing forum. Granted, people are more than willing to help on casting technique, tying(sometimes), and gear, but if you get into spot burning online, God help you. 

Oh man i enjoy messing with fisherman. There are some guys, at the same resort as my parents, that are super secretive about their fishing spots. I make a sport of following them around the lake when i seem the leave to go fishing.