freedhardwoods Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 I had been intending to use my Dewalt DWE7491RS to get my woodworking started. It is a fantastic job site saw. I knew it has a lot of shortcomings as a cabinet saw but I just found one a couple days ago that I don't think I can tolerate in a wood shop. I guess I had never bumped it before, but the fence can be knocked out of alignment with little effort. I will make enough mistakes by myself, without my tools helping me. That brings me to my new dilemma. Buy a "decent" saw to get by with for a while or get a good (not great) saw that I will keep. My end plan is to have 2 saws in line like one of the shops I work for (see pic) and I will be cutting full plywood sheets on the saw. If I buy a "decent" saw, I will probably upgrade at some point (a year or 2?), which means possibly buying 3 saws in the future. If I buy a good saw, I also wouldn't have all the time and expense of uninstalling and installing saws down the road. Another factor is that this purchase is with borrowed money. Down the road, I am hoping purchases will be with cash. I am looking at Grizzly G0715P or Shop Fox W1824 as decent saws and Grizzly G1023RLX or Shop Fox W1820 as good saws. Let the arguing I mean discussion begin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Llama Posted February 6, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 There are a few people that really like their Grizzly saws. They seem to avoid the pitfalls that are commonly associated with the brand. That is, once the fence is upgraded. I don't think you'll find a better saw for around a grand. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 More than a few, they sell a ton of those things and I read few poor reviews relative to the quantity sold. Those that hate them seem to really hate them on principle, due to a poor interaction or some technical difficulty that you can find reported on nearly any tool maker out there. All that being said, I don't own a Grizzly tablesaw. I almost did but, an unexpected turn of events had a Saw Stop drop into my shop BUT, let's NOT beat that poor old horse as the OP probably already knows all he needs to based on the picture above. In the Asian market I find the Powermatics over-priced, the Jets neutral while the Shop Fox and Grizzly's offer the best bang for the buck on a couple of their tablesaw models. Even people who don't like them can probably find the numbers G0690 and G1023 familiar. If saving some cash and getting a platform that you could likely take to the tomb with you, these two saws still seem to be the sweet spot in the sub-$3k tier. As to trying to "buy once" when it comes to some machines . . . I think I benefited from buying an old 113. Craftsman for $100, working through (read throwing money at) the things that were important, upgrading to a hybrid and then to a cab saw. I really learned what was important to me which I only thought I knew at the start . . . ergo, I have a CMS and stand out in the shed taking up space ;-) If the used market isn't helpful in your area I would percolate a bit until you have it down to 2 or 3 model/brands. Then open a new thread that asks for owners of those saws to give you the straight poop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheperd80 Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 I havent used any of the models you listed but i do own a G0690 and its been great. Ive used a variety of Powermatic saws and while theyre nice, i dont see a difference worth the huge price hike. They have problems and short comings like anything else. The thing with Grizzly is, its always a quality control crap shoot. It seems some people get a nice machine ready to run, others get a pile of crap. In which case youd have to return the unit or various parts until its all up to snuff. My brother and i both ordered G0690s and both got great units with no issues. Then he ordered and bandsaw from them and got the option B package :-(. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 There is really no reason to look at shop fox....they're exactly the same as the grizzly except with a different paint job. I have the 715 and the only way I'll ever upgrade is if I can pull the trigger on a Sawstop for the safety. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 Am I correct in think there is possibly two lines of quality with the Grizzly stuff going forward. Didn't they recently move their manufacturing to Taiwan from China. I would assume they did that to improve the quality. At least improving the odds of getting the every so often lemon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freedhardwoods Posted February 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Thanks for the replies and info. I have been reading about table saws until my eyes crossed. Lots of people with G0690s and G1023s. Most are very happy with what they have. From my reading, I found that Grizzly does make some saws in Taiwan now. They are supposed to be better quality. The one argument in my case for Shop Fox is there is a fairly large dealer 4 miles from my house. Any problems would be easy to take care of. With Grizzly I would be ordering and just hope no damage or problems. If I bought the G0715P or W1824 I would have to buy bigger fence rails which adds to the cost of buying a lower end saw. The used market around here is pretty tight. If a good saw comes up with a decent price (rarely), it's gone many times before I even inquire about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Freed, I have a 715 and love it. That said, the table saw geek Knotscott routinely suggest the 1023 over the 715 due to the internal setup. I think that what you have let us know about your plans would call for that assessment. Search out his posts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 I picked up the Grizz 1023, and I really like it except for one fault. The saw blade throws small chips over the top of the blade directly into my face. I cut that in half with a ZCI, but it still does it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 I am curious Rick does it do that even with dust collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 I am curious Rick does it do that even with dust collection. Yes, and what blade are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondhockey Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) I own a somewhat older Grizzly 1023 with an upgraded fence. I think it's fine, for me, with a few minor irritations: - Grizzly doesn't make a blade protector with dust collection for my model. - The dust collection port (4") is situated such that my dust collector doesn't evacuate everything in the housing. I periodically clean it out with a shop vac. - In fact the dust (really mostly chip) collection isn't that great; there are always wood bits left on the table after use. [edit: I use a combo blade with alternate biased teeth.] I bought mine used from someone upgrading his shop. Edited February 7, 2017 by Pondhockey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 4 hours ago, Chet K said: I am curious Rick does it do that even with dust collection. Yes, with the HF DC system, It's not a lot since I made a ZCI, but it still comes over the top of the blade. 4 hours ago, wtnhighlander said: Yes, and what blade are you using? Ross, I'm using a 40 TPI Ridge Carbide... almost as good as my old ww2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seth Clayton Posted February 7, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Thanks for the replies and info. I have been reading about table saws until my eyes crossed. Lots of people with G0690s and G1023s. Most are very happy with what they have. From my reading, I found that Grizzly does make some saws in Taiwan now. They are supposed to be better quality. The one argument in my case for Shop Fox is there is a fairly large dealer 4 miles from my house. Any problems would be easy to take care of. With Grizzly I would be ordering and just hope no damage or problems. If I bought the G0715P or W1824 I would have to buy bigger fence rails which adds to the cost of buying a lower end saw. The used market around here is pretty tight. If a good saw comes up with a decent price (rarely), it's gone many times before I even inquire about it. I'll be an unbiased voice here, as I don't own any of these products mentioned. One thing you said here struck a chord with me. In any facet of my life, I've found good and easy service has trumped brands and trends every time. Having the Shop Fox dealer so close would make this a pretty easy decision for me. Customer service these days is not what it used to be, and I'm always happier knowing I can walk in and look someone in the eye if I'm having problems. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotscott Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Shop Fox and Grizzly are owned by the same man, and in many cases the tools are very similar. However, Shop Fox offers a 2 year warranty and dealer support, so if the prices are close, there is definitely some advantage when choosing a similar SF product. Otherwise, Grizzly is a very reputable company with an excellent customer service track record. They also tend to offer excellent value if you're willing to be your own middleman. As with any tool supplier, it's better to evaluate the individual tools in question rather than try to evaluate the line as a whole. The G0690 and G1023RL have excellent well proven track records, and large followings of mainly very happy owners. There are pros and cons with each, but both offer a great saw at a great price. The G0715P had a history of some similar alignment issues as the R4512 and Cman 21833, but those have supposedly been resolved. There's also the G0771Z to consider....it offers cabinet mounted trunnions on a hybrid design, but being a newer release, it doesn't have much history yet. If you have 220v, and can swing the funding for the G1023 or 0690, I don't think you'll ever regret having the more substantial saw, but if set up properly and fitted with a good blade, I doubt that any of these saws will limit your abilities. With any of these left tilt saws that have a Biese style fence, you can easily slide the fence rail to the right to increase rip capacity. Food for thought before you spring for the longer factory rails. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 9:04 PM, RichardA said: I picked up the Grizz 1023, and I really like it except for one fault. The saw blade throws small chips over the top of the blade directly into my face. I cut that in half with a ZCI, but it still does it. Don't stand behind your blade! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freedhardwoods Posted February 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 I got a deal on a Frankensaw!!!!!! Last Tuesday, I mentioned to one of the guys at the shop I work for that I was looking for a table saw. He said they still had the saws that they replaced with SawStops and were going to sell them. I'll condense our discussions down to the deal the owner offered me. They use hydraulic motors to run their saws. He thinks he sold the motors from the old saws, but he does still have the SawStop motors. I am going to buy a 20 year old Grizzly 1023 with a never used 3hp SawStop motor, and a long homemade fence and extra long (6 feet to the right of the blade) rails for $300. He told me to take it, get it put together, and use it before I pay for it to be sure everything still works good. They were using this saw and fence every day in their shop and only replaced it with the SawStop after one of the boys got some fingers in the blade. It has some surface rust, but everything looks and feels in good shape. They also have a 15 year old pm66 that I get first chance at if one of the boys don't want it. I would have to find a motor for it if I bought it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Sounds like a good deal. I hope everything goes together and runs well for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotscott Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Is the Saw Stop motor a direct fit on the G1023? Sounds like a nice deal if so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freedhardwoods Posted February 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 The bolt spacing is 3 1/2" on both. The bracket spacing is a little bigger on the motor. I will just use bushings to make it tight. I will need to get a new pulley unless I happen to have one in my stash of stuff. I'm pretty good at making things work. The old Dodge pickup I used to have was running on a GM HEI ignition and a GM alternator. The Dodge ignition was very unreliable so I changed it. When the alternator went out GM was 1/2 the price of OE. It took an hours worth of work to save $40. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Please let us know how the Frankensaw heart transplant goes ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 That PM66 sound sweet. Would the Sawstop motor not fit it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freedhardwoods Posted February 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 2 hours ago, drzaius said: That PM66 sound sweet. Would the Sawstop motor not fit it? They aren't ready to sell the 66 yet. I won't say that motor couldn't be put on it, but it would take drastic modifications. The motor is bracket mounted and the 66 is designed for a face mounted motor. It may be a while before I can work on the saw. I'm getting really busy at work and the shop isn't completely done yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeyestoob Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 I love it when what seems like a difficult decision suddenly becomes very easy. You are not going to know what to do with 3HP on your saw now! Congrats and be sure to post some pictures once you get it up and running in its new home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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