RichardA Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 I've got a commission to build two twin beds out of Poplar, but the client wants a golden stain, like golden oak of Minwax. The question is, I know poplar is blotchy at times for staining, should I use a wood conditioner prior to staining? If not a wood conditioner, what is the best way to get a stain evenly on Poplar ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 I have to ask... Why poplar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 I've heard Charles Neils anti blotch is good - not that we can get it over here. ^^ Lester beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Pre stain works too. Or get the same stain mfg "natural " and use that for the first coat but don't give it any drying time. It will make the color lighter but not blotchy. Dyes are the way to go if you are trying to make it dark. Or use a stain that can be sprayed & wiped back. Spray and wipe the first stain coat then mist a second coat on to darken and don't wipe it. Put the first 2 finish coats on lightly before you sand between coats. Be careful sanding a finish that has stain under it. If you sand through at the edges & corners touch up is hard to make look right ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 50 minutes ago, Llama said: I have to ask... Why poplar? That's the same question I had. He say's he'd seen one like it, and wanted it .. The customer may not always be right but he's the customer, and no argument I gave would change his mind! ... So, now I need some assistance. Okay, now the question is, Where can I get Charles Neil's conditioner? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 15 minutes ago, RichardA said: That's the same question I had. He say's he'd seen one like it, and wanted it .. The customer may not always be right but he's the customer, and no argument I gave would change his mind! ... So, now I need some assistance. Okay, now the question is, Where can I get Charles Neil's conditioner? On the positive side, it will be very gentle on all your tools. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 30 minutes ago, RichardA said: That's the same question I had. He say's he'd seen one like it, and wanted it .. The customer may not always be right but he's the customer, and no argument I gave would change his mind! ... So, now I need some assistance. Okay, now the question is, Where can I get Charles Neil's conditioner? I've used his conditioner and it works well. He has some YouTube videos as well that may be helpful. http://www.cn-woodworking.com/cn-pre-color-conditioner/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collinb Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 I am coming to realize that staining is often wood-dependent and technique dependent. Just starting to look at this arena. Was watching one of those PBS/Create TV woodworking shows a few weeks ago and there was a discussion about stains and preventing blotching. The older gentleman did it two steps. First, a little water on the wood, just a mist amount, to carry the stain. Then a light stain, let it set, followed by a fuller stain. The lighter pre stain apparently allowed the final stain to be carried consistently, and no extra $ for pre-treatment/conditioner. He was working on maple, iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Charles is on here so might chime in. Send him a PM Rick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Richard, I think his pre stain conditioner is only available via his website and online store. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eric. Posted October 10, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Oh man, Rick...that's gonna look terrible. I'd try again to change his mind. At the very least make a few samples with scraps so he knows what kind of terrible decision he's making before he makes it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 I've worked with tons of poplar. It all turns darker than the stain you are applying within two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RichardA Posted October 10, 2016 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 53 minutes ago, TIODS said: I've used his conditioner and it works well. He has some YouTube videos as well that may be helpful. http://www.cn-woodworking.com/cn-pre-color-conditioner/ Thank you Kev, that was what I needed, to make a good plan for these two beds! 18 minutes ago, Eric. said: Oh man, Rick...that's gonna look terrible. I'd try again to change his mind. At the very least make a few samples with scraps so he knows what kind of terrible decision he's making before he makes it. Eric, This guy is determined that it be Poplar. How do I know? Simple, I explained everything I know about Poplar to him while he was sober! Then I got him 3/4 of the way drunk and went through the whole thing again. No change! He want's it his way. I agreed finally, and came here for help. I've got till Thanksgiving to get these done, so this week or depending on when I can get some of Charles Neil's conditioner, I'll show him every sample I can to try one more time to change his mind. If he won't, then I'll build them with the understanding that He's responsible for the outcome. But I'll do the very best I can with the build and finish. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 @RichardA, you mentioned your client had seen finished poplar elsewhere. Any chance you could get a look at what he's seen. This might give you further insight into the finish you client is expecting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 That was one of my questions to him, where? He said it was in Louisana during this years Mardi Gras at a close friend's home. As much as I love cajun food, I'm not making the trip to see this stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Any chance he would go milk paint. One thing poplar excels at is paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Wright Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 The good news is that poplar is cheap so you can get several 24" boards and do some sample staining front and back for the client to see how the wood will look with a finish on it. Be sure to do a relatively large area - small samples won't show the inconsistency of the color and that is going to be your biggest challenge. The other challenge will be getting enough stock that is close to the same tone - poplar has a ton of color variation from blonde to dark green I wouldn't start building anything until you have a sample finish that he is happy with. If he doesn't like how the finishes look then you can either offer to do a different wood or to give him the beds unfinished so he can find someone else to apply the finish. I tried to stain poplar once 15 years ago. I got halfway done with the staining and it looked like &*%$. I let it dry then primed and painted over it. Since then I have decided that I don't want to stain any more poplar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eric. Posted October 10, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Let's just be honest...poplar is a paint-grade wood. Unless you're painting it or using it as secondary for drawer sides, web frames, etc...it shouldn't be used. It's our job as craftsmen to explain this to customers, who usually know nothing. If they still insist, I guess it's a matter of how desperate you are to put food on the table. It's not something I would be willing to do right now, but if I was broke enough I guess I would...my kids gotta eat. I wouldn't get an ounce of enjoyment out of a project like that though. Guaranteed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 I'd think spraying a dye would probably be your best bet. It may be hard to find enough lumber that looks similar in poplar to make a cohesive piece though. In my limited experience it varies in color widely piece to piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Eric. said: Let's just be honest...poplar is a paint-grade wood. Unless you're painting it or using it as secondary for drawer sides, web frames, etc...it shouldn't be used. It's our job as craftsmen to explain this to customers, who usually know nothing. If they still insist, I guess it's a matter of how desperate you are to put food on the table. It's not something I would be willing to do right now, but if I was broke enough I guess I would...my kids gotta eat. I wouldn't get an ounce of enjoyment out of a project like that though. Guaranteed. I agree with you Eric, but this commission creates a real problem for me! This client is the very same guy that I buy 90% of my wood from! And since I get extremely good pricing, much better than any would believe, I just can't say no to this build. This is one of those "rock and a hard place" conundrums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Just now, RichardA said: I agree with you Eric, but this commission creates a real problem for me! This client is the very same guy that I buy 90% of my wood from! And since I get extremely good pricing, much better than any would believe, I just can't say no to this build. This is one of those "rock and a hard place" conundrums. Totally get it...ya gotta do what ya gotta do. You'd think a "wood guy" would know better. Hard headed with bad taste...tough combination to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dknapp34 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Just got back from the lumber yard today and I saw some slabs described as "Australian Poplar." It actually had some interesting grain with a nice brown color. It would make a nice table top, except that it's so soft. I wonder if it's the same species? There wasn't any of the characteristic green color of the poop poplar that I'm used to seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Just now, Dknapp34 said: I wonder if it's the same species? I'm sure it's not unless your lumber dealer is really desperate for new marketing angles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus_populnea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 I can see an experienced butcher going into a steak place and the waiter trying to convince him on which cut of meat to order. I'm sure said butcher would welcome a suggestion but would probably go elsewhere if a filet is forced down his throat when he had his heart set on prime rib. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, Eric. said: I'm sure it's not unless your lumber dealer is really desperate for new marketing angles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus_populnea I'd avoid anything from the eucalyptus genus unless you were 100% sure it was old growth. New growth is generally trash. Hint: If it's being sold at a yard, it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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