Poplar!

[RichardA]

2 hours ago, Eric. said:

Totally get it...ya gotta do what ya gotta do.  You'd think a "wood guy" would know better.  Hard headed with bad taste...tough combination to deal with.

Tell me about it!  But he does have good taste in whiskey!

[Barron]

While it wouldn't be my first choice, I don't agree that poplar is only good for paint or interior pieces. It's plenty strong, and while soft, beds don't tend to get beat up as much as tables and chairs.   I have had good luck using dye on poplar, but as noted above, the green in freshly worked poplar will darken over time to a nice brown.  I like the color, but it might not be what the client wants. 

[Tpt life]

1 hour ago, Barron said:

While it wouldn't be my first choice, I don't agree that poplar is only good for paint or interior pieces. It's plenty strong, and while soft, beds don't tend to get beat up as much as tables and chairs.   I have had good luck using dye on poplar, but as noted above, the green in freshly worked poplar will darken over time to a nice brown.  I like the color, but it might not be what the client wants. 

Say wha? Beds get beat up plenty under the right conditions. Maybe it's just my kids but...

[Eric.]

Just now, C Shaffer said:

Say wha? Beds get beat up plenty under the right conditions. Maybe it's just my kids but...

And poplar just be butt ugly.  Ain't no way around it.

[JosephThomas]

Yeah! Like wallwood ugly.

It's way better than walllwood. Imo

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[mat60]

Why all the Poplar hate? It makes nice draw stock and doesnt look that bad with a dark stain. 

[gee-dub]

35 minutes ago, mat60 said:

Why all the Poplar hate? It makes nice draw stock and doesnt look that bad with a dark stain. 

Yeah, really dark ;-)

I'm sure you've gotten the idea now that stain and poplar are not fast friends.  You can find lots of stuff online about making poplar look like mahogany, maple, etc.  You will notice the poplar they are using is carefully selected in most cases.  This can be done if the color is very strong and pretty dark. Dyes will mask more of the actual color and if dark enough, will resist showing the natural darkening of poplar with age.

Also, like the folks demonstrating, you want to use only the lighter parts of the wood.  All the green, gray and purple stuff will become spoil but, this stock can be used as a secondary wood in 'no show' areas of other pieces.

[JosephThomas]

No hate, just being rational about when the cheaper cost makes it worth using...I don't really want to use the $2 savings per bd ft to spend hours trying to get a stain to look just right, and it's just too soft for a lot of stuff. 

Fyi, I just used some for cabinet face frames 10 minutes ago. I'm not a hater :), just lazy. I find staining is a lot more work than people are willing to admit. 

[pkinneb]

I find that if the stain is dark or if you paint it poplar is a great choice but if you want it to look like another wood I find it easier and more time effective to just to use that wood. As an example the stands for these picture frames are poplar with general finishes Java gel stain.

[Eric.]

Those frames look great man, but that "stain" is closer to paint in reality.  It almost completely hides the wood beneath it.  Also, those frames will never see any abuse...so it's a perfect time to use poplar.  I stated clearly from the beginning...poplar is a paint-grade wood, which is essentially how you used it.

The problem with using poplar to save a buck is that there are other cheap species that will look much better.  Even red oak, which I despise, will take a stain very nicely and is much harder and more durable than poplar.  Ash would be another good alternative.  The cost difference is negligible, essentially, when you're putting dozens or a hundred hours into a project.  What's an extra hundred bucks at that point?  If you're not willing to drop a few extra dollars to do something right, just go to IKEA.

Alder, while on the soft side like poplar, can be a fairly attractive species when stained well.  Has a much more attractive grain than poplar and can be made to look very much like cherry and to a slightly lesser degree, walnut.  It would be a much better choice aesthetically for essentially the same price (will vary according to geography...we have it for about 50% more than poplar...still cheap).

So since these options exist, I know of no good argument to use poplar in a situation like this.  THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH POPLAR, it just needs to be used appropriately, which is for painted projects and secondary wood.  I feel like I say this way more often than I should have to...just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.  There are no laws in woodworking, but everyone should exercise some common sense.  It's in short supply these days.

[pkinneb]

Agreed.

[estesbubba]

Eric makes a good point about alder and the scraps are great for smoking salmon. Alder is 2nd from the right.

[AceHoleInOne]

Unless you build entirely with sapwood. However, the green heartwood and light color will look like baby poop! You may be able to bleach the heart wood (I have never tried it on poplar) to see if you can knock out the green some. But you can make poplar any color and look good, but light color on green heart, ummmmm, yuck. The key is a good ngr dye for a base color to even everything out.

Why golden oak ~ what could be a second choice. Build it from oak?????

 

-Ace-  

After reviewing the above post's again. 

 

You build it, have him find someone to finish it......problem solved. 

 

-Ace-

[mat60]

Green baby poop. 

[sheperd80]

Ive done alot of poplar sampling because i get alot of it from work leftovers. It doesnt blotch as bad as other woods like pine and alder. Light colored stain over some kind of seal coat will come out pretty even, but that green heartwood is the real killer. Nothing hides it! Not even dye and dark stain combined. You may go through the entire finishing process and not see the green tinge until the piece sits next to some other wood species.

If you can select boards that have no green in them (rare) then it may come out ok. But even if u dont see the green its probably there and wont show itself until its too late.

I would definitely show him some samples next to some oak samples so he can see that nasty green undertone. Short answer, dont let customers force you to do bad work. Hes gonna show it to people and tell them who made it.

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[Hurricane Dry]

On 10/10/2016 at 10:39 AM, RichardA said:

That was one of my questions to him, where?  He said it was in Louisana during this years Mardi Gras at a close friend's home.   As much as I love cajun food, I'm not making the trip to see this stuff.

His friend might have some beautiful, ancient, golden Bald Cypress and he was told it was poplar by somebody who knows how to sound more better talking about things but doesn't actually know more better about the things he is talking about.  Bald cypress can have a beautiful golden color not ugly like golden oak of the 80's and 90's, but a definite warm brown to gold finish.  So now the guy you are working for wants some ancient old growth Bald Cypress but he's telling you he want's poplar because his friend that doesn't know what he has told him it was poplar stained with golden oak.  I was born in New Orleans.  Things like this happen all the time in Louisiana.  It's how things are done.  We tell stories.  Kid I went to school with had a neighbor who had a piece of the cross that Jesus was crucified on.  The actual Jesus crucified by Pontius Pilate.  Kid said she touched the crucifix wood and it burned her.  I always hoped that poor kid didn't touch a piece of creosote or penta soaked foundation piling (sort of like telephone poles we drive into the ground to keep our houses from sinking in the mud/clay we call gumbo).

Long story short, show him a piece of poplar that has green/brown streaks in it and a piece that's damn near white and featureless.  Make sure his idea of poplar matches what poplar actually is.

I have dyed poplar with Transtint dye and then stained with General Finishes gel stain (oil based).  I've made jet black accents this way and had a few interesting results that made poplar look good in the small items I made with it.

I needed some easy to work wood from Home Depot, and poplar was what I came up with.  I've been happy with it for several small projects for telescope parts, tool handles, gun stock spacers, and table saw handwheels (don't ask, but it worked) and such.

I don't think I would make a bed out of it. 

[Pwk5017]

Aside from the looks, poplar is so much fun to work with. It's so soft and always defect free with the easiest grain to work. Everything cuts through it like butter. I love using it on items that wont be seen or arent important. My bench top is poplar, but it never darkened over time. Also, there isnt much green or purple to the wood, so it honestly looks like soft maple. 

 

So much wood prejudice. Red oak, poplar, and pine are the red headed step children of the forestry world around here. 

[drzaius]

9 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said:

So much wood prejudice. Red oak, poplar, and pine are the red headed step children of the forestry world around here. 

For good reason though. Prejudice is the wrong word to use. The dislike comes from familiarity with those woods. Of course, there are exceptions & those woods do have their places. 

[Pwk5017]

6 minutes ago, drzaius said:

For good reason though. Prejudice is the wrong word to use. The dislike comes from familiarity with those woods. Of course, there are exceptions & those woods do have their places. 

Ok, why does your familiarity with poplar make you believe it doesnt have a place in bed construction? Do you think it's structurally unsound for holding a human's weight, or is it that you look its difficult to stain well?

I think prejudice is the right word, because everyone has expressed their opinion for why they dont like the look of the wood. I personally think oak and ash look like sack, but that doesnt mean i tell people it sucks and not to build with it. Ive seen plenty examples of dyed poplar where it looked fine and not blotchy. I had to attend my wife's aunt's funeral 3 months ago and her casket was stained poplar. Looked pretty great, considering the circumstances. Numerous examples of trim, moulding, casing, base etc where stained poplar looked good. I get people who occasionally want me to stain commissions. I always tell them, "nature has a thousand colors, pick the wood that naturally matches your desired color". Either they pick cherry, walnut, mahogany etc, or they decide they cant afford what they want and they go home. It never makes economical sense to pay me my hourly wage+gel stain to color maple or cherry. My experience with coloring wood is it can be a crap shoot, and i always avoid the risk of blotching, sanding through finish/stain(excellent point by steve, this will ruin your day in a hurry). There really isnt that much difference between hard maple and sapele/cherry/walnut in my area. I just bought maple for $3.30 a bdft for FAS 8/4, 8/4 sapele for $4.05 a bdft, and cherry for $3.85 a bdft. You might have an argument for cost savings with small lots maple to small lots FAS walnut, but still its not much after you factor in gel stain+$75 an hour. Now, with all this said, poplar is damn near free around me. I bought a fair amount of it a couple months ago for $0.25 a bdft air dried. Kiln dried through my wholesaler is less than a dollar a bdft in full packs and like $1.25 bdft in small lots. At 1/3rd the cost, i understand why people want to stain it. I just bought wood for a sapele morris chair and a walnut morris chair. Im like $300+ in lumber for each chair and ottoman. Thats not lunch money for a lot of people--atleast it isnt for me. Im for making the most of poplar if it's all you can afford for a project, or the client's budget calls for it. 

[Hurricane Dry]

1 hour ago, Pwk5017 said:

Aside from the looks, poplar is so much fun to work with. It's so soft and always defect free with the easiest grain to work. Everything cuts through it like butter. I love using it on items that wont be seen or arent important. My bench top is poplar, but it never darkened over time. Also, there isnt much green or purple to the wood, so it honestly looks like soft maple. 

 

So much wood prejudice. Red oak, poplar, and pine are the red headed step children of the forestry world around here. 

Poplar is nice to work with and very cooperative for certain projects.  It machines consistently like mdf without the nasty dust and better ability to be screwed.

 

[AceHoleInOne]

3 minutes ago, Hurricane Dry said:

and better ability to be screwed.

 

So if I stuff a scrap of poplar under my pillow at night, may do the trick................ 

 

-Ace-

[drzaius]

42 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said:

I think prejudice is the right word, because everyone has expressed their opinion for why they dont like the look of the wood.

Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle feathers here.

My point was that prejudice is forming an opinion without having any knowledge of the subject. Most of us on this forum that don't like those woods do have knowledge & experience with them & have formed an opinion based on that.

To me, red oak stinks when worked, doesn't have attractive grain (some quarter & rift sawn excepted), has ugly coloring, & is too open pored. For those reasons, I don't like it. If you do, that's fine. But it doesn't mean I'm prejudiced toward it.

[drzaius]

6 minutes ago, Mike. said:

No, you are specist!

Guilty as charged.

[krtwood]

The green heartwood of poplar turns brown over time.  It can look pretty darn good too.

[Eric.]

2 hours ago, Pwk5017 said:

So much wood prejudice. Red oak, poplar, and pine are the red headed step children of the forestry world around here. 

Because

U - G - L - Y

You ain't got no alibi.

You ugly.  What?  What?  You ugly.

 

Make all the "usefulness" arguments you want...no one can disagree.  Doesn't change the fact...ugly.

Except that piece krtwood has.  But spalting is cheating.