Are Woodworking Forums Dead

[Woodenskye]

Warning, this may be a long post.  Mods, feel free to move if needed.

On Friday, Marc conducted another live chat/show, which are very entertaining.  On the show the question was posed, are forums dying?  Comments were wanted and I will be honest, I didn't read any of the comments, not on Facebook and didn't read the YouTube comments.  A few of us were in the chat section discussing and we figured that maybe more comments could help determine if forums like this are alive, on life support, or dead.  I don't have numbers on what it costs Marc to own, operate and to provide this forum to us.  I think Marc has mentioned in the past that the forum does in fact loses money, because it isn't full of ads and I have no info on how much support from the members is needed to break even.  So the following will be my opinion on forum participation.

I am active on several forums associated with woodworking and my level of activity varies. Obviously I am here, but I also participate to a certain degree on the FOG ( Festool Owners Group), LumberJocks, Sawmill Creek and the Garage Journal forum.  WTO is the forum I am most active on and the FOG is second.  Both of these forums have been a blessing as I started out in this hobby.  As I started to investigate Festool, the FOG provided me with great information that I don't think I would have been able to get anywhere else, straight from other users experiences.  The same thing happens here on a daily basis, people willing to help, give sound advice and help people grow and learn this hobby.  I believe that forums are an extremely valuable resource.  I would be severely disappointed if the forums I participate in went away.  Not only do you learn, but I have met tremendous people through these forums, I would call them friends, and I never met 99.5% of them face to face.

In a post like this, I don't like to give to much personal info, but will because it is important to the discussion I hope we can have as a result.  I started in this hobby around 2012, I bought a bunch of tools, some I regret, started reading books and the Internet.  I have learned a lot from places like this and am thankful for that.  I have 1 guild project, but there are others that I would like to purchase.  I'm not a supporter of the forum at this time, because after losing my job and income and to this point still in the same situation, sacrifices have to be made.  This has also led to completing less projects, but remaining as an active participant helps a lot, not only in maintaining the interest in this hobby, but as a release from some of the daily stress.  

Another reason I believe the forums are a valuable resource is because you can get information for free that may not always be available without purchasing premium content.  This is an expensive hobby, but not everyone has the disposable income to take classes with professionals or even buy every guild project, so people that are willing to share experiences or steps from the investment they have made in these different avenues is important.  You can't always get information about a project, a process, a tool setup a new type of joint and other things from watching a YouTube video or reading a social media post.  Interaction between people is being lost, but at least places like this offer that interaction with people from different backgrounds and experience.  The benefits of active participation in this community far outweighs any negatives I have experienced.

Do forums have their problems, yes they do.  This could range from members providing wrong info, good members leaving, arguing or being degrading of others (internet beer muscles), people dropping in to strictly drive people to their sites, but don't contribute regularly.  Some of this I believe could lead to the end of forums.  This is where having good moderators is so very important. The mods here are terrific at keeping the peace and weeding out the ones looking to cause trouble.  I'm going to guess that they do it because they enjoy the hobby, not for money.

If you are still reading, I would close with this, in order to gauge whether forums are or will remain an important part of woodworking let's voice our opinions, have a civil discussion and see what can be improved to ensure the success of communities like this.

Have a good day

Bryan

 

 

[Jim DaddyO]

I hope they are not going away.  I too read a lot of them.  Although many times I have thought about putting an answer in a thread I find that there are many good answers that came before, so why be redundant?  I enjoy lots of the technical information, the humour, and the general banter that goes back and forth (if it is polite, and it usually is around here).  I am not in the situation to contribute financially to much, but I pass on what little knowledge and experience I have.  Forums are a great way to spread the word and the information to each other.  It may not be a money maker, but I think it helps to prop up other things that do make money, so I think that the investment could pay off in other ways, even if it is only intrinsic value.

[..Kev]

Good post Bryan!

I have my own thoughts on the subject but, will keep them to myself for now only because I am a mod here.

On the Moderator front, we don't get paid and are here because we enjoy the site and the people.

As for being a "supporter", there are other ways to support beyond financial.  Just being active is a great form of support.

[Gixxerjoe04]

I think forums are a great source of info and a learning tool, I'm on here and a handful of others.  You actually get to talk to other woodworkers who've been there and screwed up before who can usually help you with not screwing up your project, @wdwerker has tons of knowledge that has helped me quite a bit in projects.  The chat room is cool since you can shoot the #$% or throw out ideas on stuff since I'm sure a lot of people don't have woodworking friends who you can throw ideas or get feedback from.  @thewoodwhisperer they're def not dead, but since a lot of woodworkers are old retired guys, they just forget how to use the internet I'd say

I started "woodworking" 3 years ago last week, facebook showed where my wife posted the first thing I made, a piece of 2x4 crap.  Wood movement... what's that, just screw the boards to the top, glue.... psht I'll just screw 2 2x4's together for the legs.  Then I got on woodworking forums and learned a ton and still got a ton to learn.  Think I've come a long way in just 3 years.

3 years ago

today

[BonPacific]

Forums are such an interesting and complicated issue. In many ways, what originally drove forums has split into specific services. Those that wanted to blog moved to dedicated blogging services (Livejournal, Twitter, etc), and now to YouTube Vlogs. A lot of Q&A forums have been rendered obsolete by the Stack Overflow network. The social interaction has moved largely to Twitter and Facebook, while showing off has taken to Instagram. Forums remain as a kind of legacy/in-between service, but they still have the power to do something most other services can't: build a community.

I make the community point since that's the reason I'm here. I started out on LumberJocks and Sawmill Creek, but the latter kept deleting my account before I could post anything, and the former had far too much "She Who Must be Obeyed" and complaining about their wives. Twitter and Instagram can't build the same community, since they are oriented around one-to-many statements, rather than conversations.

We've got a niche hobby here, big enough to support some industry but it's not exactly mainstream, which I think makes finding a community even more important. I've learned a lot of small tricks and gotten new ideas from reading threads I may not ever post in, but being able to listen to others, and know their history/reputation, is a huge boon.

Let's not even get started about trying to read through YouTube comments.

[Gixxerjoe04]

I also use youtube as a learning tool, problem is there are people on there with large followings who do stuff like I did 3 years ago, they don't really know what they're doing but have 100,000 people who think they do.  Watched a video the other day of a guy making something and put bolts in every board of the panel he made.  I wasn't being mean or a troll, I just asked him about the wood movement issue.  His response was he doesn't know much about wood movement but it should be fine....

[Tom Cancelleri]

Social interaction on the internet is comprised of 3 things.

Contributors - People who provide worthwhile content, comments and help spark meaningful discussion

Consumers - People who only read the comments and like posts and pictures

Trolls - The a-holes of the internet, generally people who are fueled by jealousy and hate, that only want to watch the world burn because they are unable to socially interact in a positive way.

In a world full of 2 second attention spans (twitter, instagram, facebook, etc) forums allow for a more personal interaction. I don't think they are going anywhere any time soon. 

[Woodenskye]

15 minutes ago, Mike. said:

Why did Marc even ask the question?  Did he provide any context?  Or was it a viewer question? 

 

It was more a topic they wanted to cover.  I don't really remember if it was a direct viewer question.  Marc didn't come off that they were dead (on life support), but Nicole was yes, all forums are dead, because it is easier to jump on Facebook etc.

[RichardA]

Ood... I was looking for a specific piece of information when I stumbled across this  little part of heaven! I have only once looked at a couple of other forums, and determined, that I absolutely would not fit in there,it's just to hateful! I feel at home here, great folks, everyone willing to share, and a great place for comic relief, especially from that guy living in Marc's basement!

[BonPacific]

18 minutes ago, Mike. said:

Why did Marc even ask the question?  Did he provide any context?  Or was it a viewer question? 

I never understood that.  If people are joking, it is not funny.  If people are serious, then I just feel bad for them.  My wife and I don't agree on everything, but I don't drag her through the mud when we have a difference of opinion, and we don't need to ask each other's permission for much. 

My wife and I were discussing this phenomenon, and apparently horse riders will do the same thing, complaining about their husbands at length when they get together. It seemed to us there are a lot of unhappy marriages out there, and since both hobbies have a distinct gender-slant, it comes out.

 

Just now, Woodenskye said:

It was more a topic they wanted to cover.  I don't really remember if it was a direct viewer question.  Marc didn't come off that they were dead (on life support), but Nicole was yes, all forums are dead, because it is easier to jump on Facebook etc.

I think it was a viewer question asking Marc if he was active on any forums.

Also, on a different side of things, I'd like to point out that WTO is using some of the best forum software I've ever run across.

[Woodenskye]

1 minute ago, BonPacific said:

I think it was a viewer question asking Marc if he was active on any forums.

Thanks for correcting, I just wasn't sure if it was a topic or question.

[SawDustB]

It may sound strange, but part of what the forum does for me is to help me have more fun with the hobby, and minimize the parts that stink. Part of that is helping to validate decisions on tools, techniques, etc. I might very well still be pocket screwing things together and trying to get by with box store lumber if I hadn't seen everyone else's amazing work.

Part of it is obviously watching Marc's videos and others to learn and get project ideas too, but there's interaction on the forum. It's also definitely dragged me further down the rabbit hole on this hobby than any other.

I would agree that the sense of community of this forum is better than the others I look at. There's very little mean spirited on this one, which isn't always the case.

[Tpt life]

Forum life is a pendulum. The only way it stays the same is if you can somehow only keep the same people. I don't think you can say forums are dying since this is the only way Certain companies answer questions. Like budgets where you can have bigger debts that are a smaller portion of larger income, I think we struggle with trendiness. Forums are not as trendy maybe, so we have a smaller segment of the population. But, certain forums are bigger than they have ever been.  I am fairly certain forum space will exist for 90% of the questions where I seek answers. Forums just for forum's sake is dying though. Ironically, we are chasing forum models in tech training for education. 

[Chet]

I am on two forums.  The other one is not related to woodworking and I go there mainly in search of needed information.  I must add that it is a lot like this on in that there is a nice friendly feel to it and there doesn't seem to be any out of control personalities or threads.  I do the occasional google search for information and end up looking at some of the other forums and it is incredible how fast they go flying of the rails.  I don't know how it happens but this forum seems to maintain a nice pace to the conversations 99 percent of the time.  I really enjoy this one and I'll be here as long as you people will have me.

[Eric.]

26 minutes ago, SawDustB said:

 

It may sound strange, but part of what the forum does for me is to help me have more fun with the hobby

I agree.  This forum has actually become part of my hobby, not just an incidental byproduct.  And I agree with BonPacific about it being a community...you simply don't get that on facebook.  It's too fast and too shallow.  So typical of modern American life.  It's ironic that people think of facebook as a way of "connecting" with other people, because as far as I can see, it does exactly the opposite.  Posting a few pictures from your weekend's activities, adding a one-sentence comment, and getting a few "thumbs-ups" is not meaningful interaction.

[Cochese]

35 minutes ago, BonPacific said:

I think it was a viewer question asking Marc if he was active on any forums.

It stemmed from a conversation Marc and I had about my experiences on the forum. The details of which I will not get into, except to say that after our conversation I decided to give it another shot.

It's all about content and community, with an emphasis on the latter. I can't count the number of forums I have historically been a part of, and I'm on probably a dozen at any given time. Sometimes you get too specific and your base dries up. Sometimes the interest dries up. Sometimes the community becomes too much of an echo chamber and opposing views and experiences are shouted down.

Inspiration for me is usually handled by social media these days, and instruction is largely handled by the more respected YouTubers and others who produce video - I just tend to learn better that way. I have always liked the journal portion of this forum the best, seeing a project being born and evolve along the way.

[Immortan D]

I have participated in several forums since the 90's but WTO has been the most expensive of them all

I like the people here, mods are also good people and that's important. Long life WTO!

[drzaius]

Lots of good points brought up here. I am on a few forums, WW & others, but this is the only one I regularly participate on. WTO seems to have just the right mix of the experienced, the newb, the in between, & the truly talented craftspersons. There is great discussion and a great sense of community. Add to that a good dose of smarta$$ery, but very, very little of the meaness that shows up on so many forums, & it makes for a great forum.

[Cliff]

I already left my thoughts as a YouTube comment. But I just thought of something else.. If forums are dead, what is reddit? It's like a forum on steroids. Massive traffic, hence the term "reddit hug of death" for unsuspecting links.

[JosephThomas]

It was dead for a while today that's for sure...I was a bit more productive at work, haha!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[wdwerker]

I enjoy sharing our comon interests. I like to toss in my 2 cents worth as well as see other viewpoints. I really wish a community like this was around when I got started doing serious woodwork . I could have avoided so many expensive mistakes. I guess that's why I try to explain how to prevent critical errors. I still learn new things constantly and it keeps my interest up to do a little better on the next project. I lurked in the shadows on a few forums but some of the attitudes kept me from really participating . I am quite grateful to Marc for providing a home for such a wonderful community that I am proud to be a part of.

[wtnhighlander]

I'm pretty much a hermit outside of WTO. You guys are the biggest community I belong to, and I'm grateful to have this place.

[TerryMcK]

I prefer forums, especially this one, rather than Facebook groups which are difficult to search. It is true that you can get almost instant response from Facebook but once you have read the response try searching for it again - not easy.

Good forum software like the one this forum is running on make it infinitely better to search for a question that has previously asked. This particular forum is the best run, most friendly and knowledgeable forum of any kind I have participated in. I for one am always happy to pass on my knowledge to others and I am not afraid of asking questions either.

I hope this forum does not go away as when it went offline late last night to a few minutes ago (my time) while it was being moved to a different server it felt like I had lost an old friend.

[RichardA]

8 minutes ago, TerryMcK said:

I prefer forums, especially this one, rather than Facebook groups which are difficult to search. It is true that you can get almost instant response from Facebook but once you have read the response try searching for it again - not easy.

Good forum software like the one this forum is running on make it infinitely better to search for a question that has previously asked. This particular forum is the best run, most friendly and knowledgeable forum of any kind I have participated in. I for one am always happy to pass on my knowledge to others and I am not afraid of asking questions either.

I hope this forum does not go away as when it went offline late last night to a few minutes ago (my time) while it was being moved to a different server it felt like I had lost an old friend.

It's a bit like an addiction, and like you I kinda went into withdrawal yesterday!    Didn't like it one bit!   I feel better now!

[Chestnut]

I'll add a voice to the thread. I'm probably going to repeat a lot but Marc wanted to know if the forums are dead and repetition is defiantly not death.

I stumbled upon the forums when looking for information about woodworking. I was trying to take my woodworking further and getting useful feedback anywhere was beyond worthless. Getting a useful answer to a question on facebook or youtube is beyond worthless. Here the feed back is good and detailed. Eric reminds us that we're all worthless and this some how drives us to get better. Getting useful critical feed back anywhere else isn't possible. It's either rude comments with no substance or it's blind praise from couch potatoes.