Titebond Hide Glue

[Coop]

Has anyone used this product and your experience please. I’m planing a project that could require an extended working time on the glue. In the past when I needed a little extra wiggle room, I’ve used West Systems epoxy with their 206 slow hardener with their dispensers. The last two times with this epoxy, the work time didn’t meet with my expectations. After going to Titebonds site, I’m wondering why more people don’t use this stuff, except where water proof conditions are a consideration. However, they do not specify what the cure time is. I’ve used their II and III and know what to expect with these. 

[Chet]

I would be interested in some opinions from real people on this also.

[Mark J]

I don't have any answers for you, but Titebond does have excellent technical support. 

[wtnhighlander]

I wonder about this as well. I've heard traditionalists like Roy Underhill say that hide glue 'tacks up' in seconds, making low-stress joints easy to assemble without clamps. That is real hot hide glue, of course, but it seems counter-intuitive to the claimed longer working time.

[Ronn W]

I found this:   https://titebond.com.au/products/liquid-hide/.    Click on "application guidlines.  Hope that helps.

[Coop]

Thanks Ronn. I hadn’t seen the application guidelines. I think I will buy a small bottle and give it a try on some scrap pieces. 

[Ronn W]

I have a bottle but have never used it.  Let me know how it goes.

[treeslayer]

@Coop, I don’t know it you have access to it but Titebond makes a glue called Titebond Extend, says open time is 15 minutes total assembly time 20-25 minutes, never used it so I’d be interested to see if anyone else has 

[Coop]

I saw that at Rockler earlier today and wondered about it. 

[Barron]

I have used it, it works great, but I don’t know if it has longer open time than epoxy. I’ve found that if I pour epoxy onto a flat surface, the open time is longer than if I leave it in the mixing container. 

[JohnG]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:45 PM, Barron said:

I have used it, it works great, but I don’t know if it has longer open time than epoxy. I’ve found that if I pour epoxy onto a flat surface, the open time is longer than if I leave it in the mixing container. 

In the mixing container the volume of epoxy has much less exposed surface area to dissipate the heat from the chemical reaction of the two parts, so it heats up and cures faster. Poured out with much more surface area, it does not heat up as fast and cures more slowly. 

[Coop]

On 5/29/2022 at 8:45 PM, Barron said:

 I’ve found that if I pour epoxy onto a flat surface, the open time is longer than if I leave it in the mixing container. 

I’ve heard that. As my project will be made up 20” wide panels butt jointed end grain to face using dominos, I wonder if epoxy wouldn’t give me a stronger joint? I read an article that said that using the Titebond  type glues end to end and end to face grain joints are just as strong as face to face grain joints but not sure I believe that? 

[Coop]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:33 PM, JohnG said:

In the mixing container the volume of epoxy has much less exposed surface area to dissipate the heat from the chemical reaction of the two parts, so it heats up and cures faster. Poured out with much more surface area, it does not heat up as fast and cures more slowly. 

I’ll be darned! I often wondered why as I thought it would be the opposite. Thanks John for the input. 

[JohnG]

Epoxy cures through the chemical reaction of the two parts, not from the exposure to air. 

[Bmac]

Coop, I've used Titebond Hide Glue, I liked it and it did give me more time for assembly. With that said, if i need more assembly time I usually go with Titebond II Extend, this is a nice glue for complex glueups. It is a little more runny than the other Titebond products, but I have confidence in this glue.

Here's a link with the details;  http://www.titebond.com/product/glues/21051713-5cce-4925-a653-3bff0a0f71ab

I've really gotten away from epoxy, except it certain circumstances. I believe with really nice tight fitting joints it's easy to starve the joint with epoxy. Epoxy really is the strongest and sets better if it has some film thickness. A very thin layer of epoxy in a tight joint is not ideal. I know some believe starving a joint is a myth, and I think that may be the case with the traditional wood glues, but I do not think it's a myth with epoxy. Unfortunately I have a project I used epoxy on that had this problem. Epoxy does best in sloppy joints, that's why it works well in all those river tables and for filling in cracks or defects. 

But enough about epoxy, I'd go with the Titebond II Extend, nice product.

[curlyoak]

Titebond Liquid Hide provides superior creep-resistance, 

That means the wood in the joint does not move.   Titebond III does move or allow creep. Creep is a good thing in furniture building. Any glue that creeps is not allowed in truss building and engineered beams. I'd rather the wood move than breaking.

[Mark J]

10 hours ago, Coop said:

I read an article that said that using the Titebond  type glues end to end and end to face grain joints are just as strong as face to face grain joints but not sure I believe that? 

Awhile back posted some guy's testing on You Tube where he tested end to end vs side to side joints.  I don't know if I could find that post, but the jist was that the wood fibers were by far stronger than the adhesive or the lignin binding the wood fibers.  However,  the glue was stronger than the lignin.  

[Dave H]

On 5/30/2022 at 6:11 AM, Mark J said:

Awhile back posted some guy's testing on You Tube where he tested end to end vs side to side joints.  I don't know if I could find that post, but the jist was that the wood fibers were by far stronger than the adhesive or the lignin binding the wood fibers.  However,  the glue was stronger than the lignin.  

 

[Mark J]

Here's the video I was ghinking of.

(Although, now that I think of it, it may have been someone else's post).

[Ronn W]

With comenting on the test method s or anything like that - It's still really interesting. 

[Coop]

The last one is the one I was thinking of.

[Wimayo]

On 5/29/2022 at 10:47 AM, Coop said:

Thanks Ronn. I hadn’t seen the application guidelines. I think I will buy a small bottle and give it a try on some scrap pieces. 

Testing something you are not familiar with is always a good idea. Please tell us how it works out.

I do use the Titebond Liquid Hide glue occasionally; particularly if I'm doing repair or restoration work on older furniture that was originally assembled with hide glue. I have found that it does give quite a lot of working time. However, some of this may be because I use it so infrequently what I have on hand can not be considered "fresh". I was re-assembling a small oak desk a short time ago and found several hours later that a joint could still be "adjusted"; not easily, but without damaging the wood. The next day, the joint was fine and sturdy. This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the situation. The worst thing about this, it seems, is that the clamps need to stay on quite a bit longer.

Likes and dislikes:

Like - It is slippery when wet and tight fitting joints slide together easily.

Dislike - It is thin and runny.

Like - Squeeze-out can be wiped off without as much concern over adverse effect on finishing as with other glues.

Like - Ultimate strength appears to be about equal (or good enough) compared to other glues (not a scientific opinion)

Like - Cured glue can be reversed like hot hide glue with heat and water.

[G Ragatz]

On 5/30/2022 at 9:30 AM, Mark J said:

Here's the video I was ghinking of.

I've run across this video before, and I don't find it very surprising, nor very convincing, for a couple of reasons:

• The only glue joint that failed at all in his testing was the end-grain joint. In the rest of the cases, it was the wood that failed, not the glue joint. This is right in line with the conventional wisdom that in typical woodworking joinery - edge-to-edge, M&T, lap, etc. - the glue is stronger than the wood.
• The only situation where I can imagine a woodworker contemplating an end-grain-to-end-grain joint is when s/he is trying to make a longer piece out of two shorter pieces of stock. If that's the situation, then the relevant comparison would be an end-to-end butt joint vs. a lap joint or a finger joint - and I'm pretty sure I know how that would come out.

[Chestnut]

On 5/30/2022 at 4:32 AM, Bmac said:

I know some believe starving a joint is a myth, and I think that may be the case with the traditional wood glues, but I do not think it's a myth with epoxy. Unfortunately I have a project I used epoxy on that had this problem.

In the discussions I've hard regarding starved joints it was relating to clamping pressure squeezing out all of the adhesive. With most hand tightened clamps this is difficult. Most of the time this comes up when discussing adhesives for bent lamination. I like epoxy for bent lam personally as it's nice and rigid, can be considered structural, and has preferable working properties to the urea resins that are toxic.

With tight fitting mortise, i agree the mortise could scrape the epoxy off the tenon. I usually rough up the tenon perpendicular to the wood grain with coarse sand paper to ensure that adhesive is carried into the mortise. I do this with both epoxy and wood glue. Can't really score the sides of the mortise.

I like the discussion on hide glue. I just have trouble adopting as it's so easy to just use 1 adhesive and never have to worry about it. So far if TB II hasn't given me enough time WS Epoxy with 207 special clear hardener has done the trick. I agree with the comments it'll set up faster in a cup than spread on a plate.

[Robby W]

I tried some TB liquid hide glue on a project and it worked fine. It worked well enough that I don't remember what I used it. That is my favorite kind of glue. It works without issues.

I think I used it on a box where I didn't want glue spill to mess up the finish and it did exactly what I wanted. I couldn't see it under the finish. I will be using it some more in the future for project that won't see outside exposure.